Trackman/Real Science/The grip

[Wolfman]

There was a thread awhile back about 10 finger/baseball grip etc. Basically it came down to 99% of good golfers have used the Vardon overlap for a 100 years.

BUT, I've never seen or heard anyone ever prove that Vardon's group is superior through any scientific study.

So, I flew to Dallas yesterday and decided while I was on the flight I would read up on the grip a little. Got 2 books: Joe Norwoods golf-o-metric and a new book Peak Performance Foundations written by Don Trahan.

Both authors apparently "studied" anatomy directly or through "scientists" and/or orthopedic surgeons.

Both tell you to grip differently - as in pressure points, and each think different muscles in the forearm are more important than the other.

So, my questions are:

1. have there ever been any scientific studies that show which muscles in hand and forearm are more important in the grip and golf swing.

2. have there ever been any scientific studies that show that Vardon's grip is actually better:
a. in delivering the clubhead and face where it actually needs to be to produce the most effective shot.

b. at producing the most speed or fastest clubhead speed or the most force at impact

3. Are there any studies that show applying more grip pressure with the last 3 fingers of the left hand are more beneficial for a and b above that applying more pressure with the thumb and forefinger?

Has anyone experimented in any way on Trackman with any of the above?

 

[savydan]

Very good questions.

But at the end of the day, I'd say it's hard to "prove" anything because it would be difficult if not impossible to say that a result was soley the funtion of the placement of the fingers on the club.

All I know is that I want my left forefinger on the golf club.

 

[Chip Putterman]

The grip should accomplish three things:
1. hang on to the club so it doesn't fly away during your swing
2. aim the club face
3. maximize the size of the swing radius
How this is accomplished is personal preference and trial and error.
Remember, Iron Byron and Pingman have a screw for a grip. And they hit it flush every time.

 

[Richie3Jack]

Nicklaus, Tiger and I believe Snead all used an interlocking grip. You can't find any science probably because there is none.



3JACK

 

[Dariusz J.]

Snead used an overlap grip, Rich. And the science is called BIOMECHANICS. While I know it is not the best place here on this forum to talk about this science I canpoint out several reasons why interlocking is inferior when comparing to Vardon grip.

Cheers

P.S. Keep the great work of yours in your site, mate. Really impressing.

 

[Wolfman]

Why not???????!!!!!!!!!

And the science is called BIOMECHANICS. While I know it is not the best place here on this forum to talk about this science I canpoint out several reasons why interlocking is inferior when comparing to Vardon grip.


OK - so if you know the science - why can't you tell us the results.

Science is what we have been talking about ever since Brian got into Trackman

AND

it was the point of the start of the whole thread!

 

[Shot Limit]

I used an interlock grip forever, it's the way I was taught as a kid to hold the club. A very wise man told me that this type of grip would be a lot of maintenance throughout a golfer's life. He recommended the Vardon overlap so I switched. I am quite happy with the overlap now, not sure why but I like it. Science is in the results for me and time will tell I suppose.

 

[Richie3Jack]

I used overlap grip for roughly 20 years, even did so at a fairly competitive level, playing D-1 college golf and some mini-tour events. One day I was on the range and started to develop a blister and in order to keep hitting shots, I switched to a 10 finger grip which produced some powerful shots, but I couldn't stop turning over the clubface so quickly. I then tried the interlocking grip and found optimal results. And I wear an XL glove size, so the whole 'interlocking is for small hands' just doesn't jive with me.

My point is that we should probably all try out the different grips on the range and see how we perform with them. If we find a grip that we swing better with, that's a big boost to our game. If we find that the grip we've been using is the best for us, great. At least we now know and it only took about 20 minutes of time on the range, no big deal.






3JACK

 

[Dariusz J.]

Wolfman,

Interlock grip is deep in nature. Our subconscious mind looks always for security and stabilization in order to exclude any uncertainity. Natural limitations bring the feeling of security. The only one possibility of achieving it for a golfer using interlock grip is to put the pinky as deep as possible till the end - with such a position it is hardly possible to avoid having a too strong RH grip with all negative consequences of it.
If you ask me if I have a Trackman-like machine to support what I said with clear results, I will say I haven't. Sciences and studies are different in nature, not always bringing a total transparency of the objective results in our 3-D reality.

Cheers

 

[Wolfman]

10 Finger Gives more Power

"I switched to a 10 finger grip which PRODUCED SOME POWERFUL SHOTS, but I couldn't stop turning over the clubface so quickly. I then tried the interlocking grip and found optimal results. And I wear an XL glove size, so the whole 'interlocking is for small hands' just doesn't jive with me."

So, sounds like a trackman test would be beneficial. Are you leaving some distance untapped because you aren't using the 10 finger? Does your D plane change because of the grip? Are different muscles in the forearm used or same ones but differently?

Grip change, trackman and a club fitting - Do the ten finger grip with different shafts to tame the hook?

So many possibilities left unchecked.

 

[GPM1985]

The 10-finger grip has always interested me. I have some speculations on why it seems to promote a hook.

1. There's an extra finger on the shaft, which may produce a more powerful contraction of the right forearm muscles, which may cause a faster release. I think it stands to reason that you can apply more force with five fingers than four. I draw this conclusion based on the fact that you use all five fingers when you throw a dodgeball or lift a dumbbell.

2. The club is effectively shorter and lighter when gripped with 10 fingers. This could throw off the timing for someone who's used to a traditional grip. Also, it's been pointed out (though not scientifically proven) that lighter clubs are easier to hook, although this may go back to the timing issue, which also has no scientific basis.

3. With all five fingers of the right hand on the grip, the right hand is lower, meaning that the right shoulder would be lower without some type of compensation. A lower right shoulder at address might promote more axis tilt through the ball, creating the potential for a hook.

This is all speculative. It would be cool if there was equipment to measure things like grip pressure, force across and along the shaft, etc.

 

[Notorious B.E.N.]

my hands always hurt after hitting balls until i switched to the overlap. usually people with big hands prefer overlap.