Trying something new, any thoughts?

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Leek

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I've lost some clubhead speed and want to increase mine. I have read a lot of posts about this over the last year or two on several sites. Finally, last year I found an LDA guy, Mike posting on another site about swinging with a 6 lb bar and showing some incredible gains. Others who replied to his thread said they were achieving even greater gains with this idea. After a while, Mike said the bar was causing some problems by making him swing under the plane and he was getting the resulting hooks and pushes. He researched some more and found something called the swingspeed. I read his posts, began talking to Mike and asking lots of questions. He put me in touch with the inventor, a guy named Tim. Some of the results people have posted are downright amazing, 10 mph, 15mph, one guy even a 30 mph gain.
Mike then worked out something that allows that site's members to get a pretty big discount on this. After more discussion, I decided to buy one. I just got it last week.
When the device came, I thought it's pretty nice. About a 2 ft. long threaded shaft with a golf grip on it. I understand you can get either a training grip or a standard grip, I chose standard. Included were weight sets 2 2 lb weights and 2 1 lb weights. They thread onto the shaft and there is a "safety cap" to keep them from spinning off. He also sent a dvd with a training program and the same thing in written instructions.

Being an eager dummy, I immediately put ALL 6 lbs on it and swung it one time, very slowly. This ain't like a heavy Momentus. I have one, and with the 6 lbs on it, a Momentus feels like a feather.

A couple observations. This device really helps in a couple of areas:

1. Plane- you will not be able to swing this off-plane. It's just too heavy for that.

2. Flipping- the weight, coupled with the drill instructions if you follow them, are another way and I might add very effective way to make you feel how to stop flipping. I have struggled with flipping, or more accurately hoisting (never a full flip, but a slightly cupped left wrist, coupled with a block) for a long time. This really ingrains a flat left wrist.

3. Pivot- you have to make a strong pivot. It's too heavy to muscle very well.

That's all for now. I'll report what's going on with my clubhead speed when I return home from the business trip I'm on currently.

I'd welcome any questions.
 
Leek,

You were saying that Mike had underplane problems with the heavy bar but that you can't get off plane with this. Does the shorter length of this prevent you from getting underplane even though it weighs quite a bit?

I've heard that weighted devices don't do much for speed because your essentially getting so much help from gravity on the downswing when you use them. Swinging these with much speed would seem to put lots of load on your back when it comes time to "brake". Guess that's kept me away from these sorts of aids. (Never checked his stats, but did Funk ever get any longer after his Momentus endorsement/training?)

Looking forward to your feedback.

Robbo
 

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
I've always felt that heavy training aids due help to increase swing speed but how much of that is coming from increased strenght? I don't know.

However i have noticed students being able to find substantial gains because:

1) they are not over accelerating as much
2) Using their pivot better
3) Helps them not flip anymore
4) Helps to get their right shoulder more on plane
4a) leads to more trigger delay usually

So "heavy" training aids will probably increase strength and usually the 4 things above too, so it's anyone's guess which one increases the speed more. In my opinion, doing the above 4 things correctly you can find a lot of "wasted effort" swing speed that appears out of nowhere. Then you will only find smaller porportionate gains after that through strength.

That's just my opinion and i haven't been able to test it thoroughly.
 

Leek

New
Leek,

You were saying that Mike had underplane problems with the heavy bar but that you can't get off plane with this. Does the shorter length of this prevent you from getting underplane even though it weighs quite a bit?

I've heard that weighted devices don't do much for speed because your essentially getting so much help from gravity on the downswing when you use them. Swinging these with much speed would seem to put lots of load on your back when it comes time to "brake". Guess that's kept me away from these sorts of aids. (Never checked his stats, but did Funk ever get any longer after his Momentus endorsement/training?)

Looking forward to your feedback.

Robbo

Robbo, I'm just guessing and others probably know more. I believe he got underplane more due to the length of those bars (46") than the weight. When you are moving 4 or 6 lbs in a length you can handle, I think it gets more onplane because it is very hard to swing that much weight offplane. Your body/arms probably seek the TSP.

As far as Funk goes, I don't know. I really dissected his swing and there are a couple things to note:

He has little trigger delay
His pivot is pretty good
He has more clubhead speed than you might think, I got the total view of his swing on the TM MAT-T Tour fitting system at PGA. His driver is 103-105 at impact. I believe the average TOUR player is between 105-108. That would mean he is about 5-10 yards shorter than average.
 

Leek

New
Thanks Jim, makes sense to me. I'll report my findings as I go. I'll tell you one thing, after a week I'm sore. That is because I'm old, fat and out of shape! (but you and Brian already knew that)

Another, it really causes me to use the big muscles and fire those hips!
 
Robbo, I'm just guessing and others probably know more. I believe he got underplane more due to the length of those bars (46") than the weight. When you are moving 4 or 6 lbs in a length you can handle, I think it gets more onplane because it is very hard to swing that much weight offplane. Your body/arms probably seek the TSP.

As far as Funk goes, I don't know. I really dissected his swing and there are a couple things to note:

He has little trigger delay
His pivot is pretty good
He has more clubhead speed than you might think, I got the total view of his swing on the TM MAT-T Tour fitting system at PGA. His driver is 103-105 at impact. I believe the average TOUR player is between 105-108. That would mean he is about 5-10 yards shorter than average.


Interesting info on Funk. How good did that guy look 2 weeks ago in Hawaii?

I guess he's "long enough" based on his ability to win on both tours at his age.

Robbo
 

Leek

New
Jim, as I work with this, I feel some serious acceleration with my hips. There is a sudden burst to it. I'm shifting, increasing axis tilt, then the hips explode through their turn. I do a number of strength/fitness drills with this, then both one armed and two armed swings with the heavy device, alternated with swings with a very light "club" ( a 57 gram shaft with a grip and no head), then finally full swings with my driver. Now, the driver shaft whoosh sounds really loud just past impact. Does that sound like over-acceleration?
 

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
over acceleration is easier to see than to diagnose over a forum. essentially over accel is you simply trying to add to much to a swing instead of letting the club work like a club
 

Leek

New
OK- Frank Viola, a noted TOUR quality clubfitter (he sells and fits tour issue equipment, he's expensive but a good value) suggested a Swing Speed Radar to measure club head speed. I bought a Speed + Tempo unit . As an aside, these boards are great for discounts on stuff we want. I got a very nice discount on the SwingSpeed workout stuff as a golfwrx.com member, now a hook up with a discount on the Radar device.

Anyway, today after 3 weeks of doing the drills on the DVD that came with the SwingSpeed; lots of one armed pivot driven swings with each arm, also some conditioning & strength drills and of course full swings. On the swings, I worked on what Brian suggested I work on in my last couple lessons, swinging more left and maintaining a flat left wrist.

I went to the range to monitor my results. I knew something was up when I was seeing mid-90s with my 6 iron during warmup. I don't what my 6 iron speed was before, but my driver was mid-90s (sometimes low 90s) three weeks ago.

Then the driver- first swing- good contact 104! I then made a few swings that were NOT pretty- 98 and 100. Now, I'm pretty enthused- what happens if I swing OUT OF MY SHOES??? Take a couple big cuts- 104-107, but bad contact. Excitement is over, just normal swings. They stay from 101-105. Average is about 103 over 25-30 swings. That's about 8-9 mph in 3 weeks.

I don't know what to expect, will I stay there? Will I gain more speed? I don't know, but my goal was to gain 5 mph in a few months, and I'm past that.

I love this device and training program! There you go Jim- Is this from improved pivot or more strength or both?
 
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Leek

New
Thanks Brian- as an aside I've also prioritized the other things you told me and I'm working on them: Getting the right shoulder downplane (instead of "high"), and the weight shift demonstration you gave me over and over, almost as an aside.
 
leek: do you use the six pounds all the time, or switch them around a bit? great success. i'll look into that device as well.
 
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