tumble
- Thread starter jerry1967
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
It means the rotation of the club on the off plane axis. Called BETA TORQUE in this pic.
Jerry, look for a video Brian did 2 yrs ago..ish called Vsp (vertical swing plane) and the tumble. I think that was the right name. This vid has been reposted in more than one thread I am sure.
Found it.
http://www.brianmanzella.com/golfin...vsp-flying-wedge-tumble.html?highlight=Tumble
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Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
With the club head only
tongzilla
New
well...to me, getting the right shoulder going out and forward (as opposed to tilting too much too early) so that the shoulders look pretty level at the last parallel of the shaft before impact...that feels like covering the ball...obviously you don't want your hand path going out though.
coach
New
One of Brian's best videos, tons of info
Erik_K
New
I believe I basically asked the same question a long time ago. Kevin told me that tumble has more to do with the sweet spot instead of the shaft. I still have a hard time visualizing what he is alluding to, however.
You do ask an important question...how important is this sort of thing for a high handicap golfer with a steep move down to the ball? Would an attempt to tumble only hurt? Or to put it another way, what conditions must be in place to tumble correctly? Brian has stated that all good players tumble. Is it possible that tumbling is the result of doing a handful of other things correctly beforehand?
It seems that being a little laid off at the top is a very popular concept and clearly you need a backswing that fosters such a position. After that you move into the transition, which is another can of worms.
Erik
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
They might come over it with their hands but the club always works under plane, or under the plane of the hands late in the downswing. Most hackers have little to no steepening moves in the swing the affect the club. It works the other way, forcing swallowing of the club, especially late.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Players must feel the club is working UP to the plane and not BACK toward it.
Not sure I understand, but that's par for the course. If the club is always under plane, then why do most over the top steep swinging hackers strike a lie board with the toe end of the club-head? Isn't that an indication that the swing is too steep / high hands at impact (toe down divots)?
The steepening move with many hackers is right from the top. They never make the initial "Pro" flattening move to shallow out the plane. In my mind making this move for the already steep hacker would be a death move. The toe would dig even deeper into the ground.
It seems who this tumble move is really for is the good golfer who gets stuck coming from too far inside or under the plane, like Tiger used to. Again, most hackers swing from too far out to in, so I can't see how this tumbling out over the plane move helps a too steep swing.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Keefer, the swing that looks steep,is ultimately shallow because it always works under the hands late. Don't let the shaft angle fool you. Those swings have shallow impacts that cut under or behind the ball because the do the exact opposite of a good player. Steep,early, shallow late. Top ball strikers shallow the club early then steepen it late. Hang in there on this one, it could definitely help any golfer.
I'm afraid I'm with Erik_K and having a hard time understanding this. I don't want you to waste your time with guys like me trying to explain it.
For a golfer who throws the club out and over the plane initially to try to tumble over the plane more on the way down does not compute. In my mind it would only work if they initially flatten under the plane then tumble out over the plane.
I've seen the demonstration videos by Manzella and Jacobs so I do understand visually what this tumble move is. Anyway............
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