Turning the back to the target and the Underplaner

[Jwat]

Wanted to see if any other underplaners were having a hard time with this move? Should we as underplaners when incorporating the early release be working on more of a carry move w/ the out toss?

Brian suggested that I need to stay more above the plane on the DS. Seems like when I do the early release, if I get below the plane it is thin city.

 

[magicmarker]

I feel you...I find if I set up more closed the whole sequence becomes easier. If I set up square I feel like I am out of position to maximize my arm/hand speed. When I'm more closed I can get the clubhead moving more 'on it's own'. There is a tug of war going on, the clubhead wants to pull me down with it, my goal is to tie...winning will thin it.

 

[gailfcno]

hi jwat

i watched a few of your swings you get it into a good position on the backswing and nothing in that backswing is causing you to be underplane. on the downswing you have a big lateral move with the hips which gets you into a postion that is too far forward if you got your hands in the postion they needed to be with this lateral sway you would more than likely take a divot too much on the target side and probably miss the ball completely. so what you do is flip the hands at it much too early in an effort to make contact with the ball. you definitely need some carry your first move from the top should not be that lateral slide of the hips but a weightless dropping motion of the hands and arms out to the wall, also feel like the hands are dropping into a position that is towards the target side, then really release that club and line it up. there should be no feeling of trying to force the club into positions no tugging or pulling with the arms and hands just a drop of the hands and arms out in front of you and towards the target side. the way you swing now you slide from the top you pull the hands down and into the body then because you are so far ahead of it the hands and arms never get to where they should be and you flip at it.

 

[Jwat]

Maybe I need to try and practice more with a closed stance. But do you think this will work with someone who doesn't hardly clear their left side on the DS? (I know, dont worry about the body) I am going to work on it tommorrow to see.

If we learn to release our arm's, could it cure our underplane disease? When I was doing the LCT last year and swinging good, my arms just swung acoss my body with such a strong force. My body wouldn't ever dip and get in front of the arms. Now its like I have Paresthesia in my arms or something.

 

[Jwat]

hi jwat

i watched a few of your swings you get it into a good position on the backswing and nothing in that backswing is causing you to be underplane. on the downswing you have a big lateral move with the hips which gets you into a postion that is too far forward if you got your hands in the postion they needed to be with this lateral sway you would more than likely take a divot too much on the target side and probably miss the ball completely. so what you do is flip the hands at it much too early in an effort to make contact with the ball. you definitely need some carry your first move from the top should not be that lateral slide of the hips but a weightless dropping motion of the hands and arms out to the wall, also feel like the hands are dropping into a position that is towards the target, then really release that club and line it up. there should be no feeling of trying to force the club into positions no tugging or pulling with the arms and hands just a drop of the hands and arms out in front of you and towards the target. the way you swing now you slide from the top you pull the hands down and into the body then because you are so far ahead of it the hands and arms never get to where they should be and you flip at it.

I think the anaylsis is spot on. I've been working hard on the lateral sway but still no luck. It seems so simple to stop doing it when I think about it, but unfortunatley its not. Maybe working more on the carry move will help. I assume that is what Brian meant when he told me to stay above the plane.

But for the thread's sake, do you think that the carry + the out toss can cure the underplaner?

 

[jbrunk]

Maybe it is the type of underplaner that is the difference, but I was/am as underplane as anyone I have seen on this forum and the new release is helping me. I find my key is to be slow in the out toss because that helps me keep the left shoulder from tugging early.

 

[Jwat]

Maybe it is the type of underplaner that is the difference, but I was/am as underplane as anyone I have seen on this forum and the new release is helping me. I find my key is to be slow in the out toss because that helps me keep the left shoulder from tugging early.

Sounds like a good swing thought. Although, I don't know how much out tossing you are going to be doing for the next several months living in Tulsa I have family around there and I never go visit during this time of year.

 

[gailfcno]

I think the anaylsis is spot on. I've been working hard on the lateral sway but still no luck. It seems so simple to stop doing it when I think about it, but unfortunatley its not. Maybe working more on the carry move will help. I assume that is what Brian meant when he told me to stay above the plane.

But for the thread's sake, do you think that the carry + the out toss can cure the underplaner?

hello jwat.

carry obviously will help prevent an underplane swing. out toss might not be a good feeling for some people i tried it and just could not get it to work. brian has talked before of a weightless dropping motion of the hands and arms ala freddie couples, i believe this dropping motion leads to all the good things brian talks about it maintains the width in the swing it prevents any tugging or pulling and it produces more lag. drop the hands and arms into the slot then really apply that torque and line it up. you are an athletic guy jwat with a good swing that has a few minor flaws. more than likely you were a player that bottomed out to early then used the slide to help bring the lowpoint forward, but it only works if your timing is perfect, you were using a flaw to cure a flaw and making things worse. you need to start using the hands and arms to control low point. try swinging at 50% should help you eliminate the big slide drop those hands out to the wall and make sure that they are also working towards target side or else you will bottom out early getting those hands working towards target side will also bring the weight nicely into the left side without the big slide. the key is to get those hands out but also moving forward , there should be no dragging or tugging, just a drop a turn and a swish.

 

[spktho]

hello jwat.
the key is to get those hands out but also moving forward , there should be no dragging or tugging, just a drop a turn and a swish.

I've only been able to do some short pitches so far in the course of rehabbing my knee and this perfectly describes what I have found so far.

 

[leon]

Wanted to see if any other underplaners were having a hard time with this move? Should we as underplaners when incorporating the early release be working on more of a carry move w/ the out toss?

Brian suggested that I need to stay more above the plane on the DS. Seems like when I do the early release, if I get below the plane it is thin city.

A few posts recently have talked about 'aiming the toss'. I took that to mean that you could toss either more 'away from' or 'towards' the target line (as opposed to parallel to it) to adjust the plane line. If I'm right (which would be a first!) then wouldn't a more 'in front' out-toss be similar to the carry?

In any case, I'd expect a small carry would help with underplane, regardless of whether you are using the new release or not. It just might not be addressing the cause of the underplane.

 

[dbl]

To the OP, with your underplane action, is that something you want to keep? I had it, and wouldn't want it back. But ymmv. I was underplane for a long time, twas flat and laid off. Then in a lesson with Brian I got a new Backswing. Very much like SD. With the new backswing, there is no more underplane, and I don't need carry. So to me the first question is what condition is one's backswing. But of course, people vary. But anyway, IF someone has a backswing that is laid off, and trying to do the new release...I'd expect a bad move at the top (wrong direction) followed by frantic closing of the face and probably a pull or slice. Just a guess, not an instructor.

 

[Shot Limit]

Wouldn't the direction of your out-toss, relative to the target, influence whether you are underplane or not? Have you tried changing the direction of the out toss?

Just thinking out loud.

 

[Jwat]

Today I worked on squatting and really pulling up with the shaft on the DS. I think one thing it did do is help slow the big lateral movement on the DS.

 

[SteveT]

@jwat ... what if you flexed your right knee in the backswing to lower your entire body somewhat.... then going into the downswing you make your weight shift from the lowered position and then straighten your left leg through final release and impact?

This would add parametric acceleration to your centripetal acceleration.. and ensure that your hands coupling point is rising from the low point.

Your swing is rather level, controlled and smooth... but not that aggressive. Look at a Woods video and watch him dip'n leap in the downswing as he unloads his hips, others too.

 

[Jwat]

@jwat ... what if you flexed your right knee in the backswing to lower your entire body somewhat.... then going into the downswing you make your weight shift from the lowered position and then straighten your left leg through final release and impact?

This would add parametric acceleration to your centripetal acceleration.. and ensure that your hands coupling point is rising from the low point.

Your swing is rather level, controlled and smooth... but not that aggressive. Look at a Woods video and watch him dip'n leap in the downswing as he unloads his hips, others too.

It is hard to tell from that camera angle but my right knee is pretty flexed. Are you suggesting that I flex it more?

I do agree that even though i felt as though I was really lowering my body and yanking up hard with the grip, in video I wasn't. I can definitley add more squat to the DS. Thanks for the analysis.