weight and string release

[Todd Dugan]

An old training concept for feeling an efficient swing is to swing a small weight on the end of a string/rope. If you can get enough swinging force going, the string will become straight and swing in-plane. When you do this, bending the wrists will NOT cause the weight to swing around the hands, since the string is malleable, not rigid. Yet, the weight WILL swing around the hands and thus, the string will line-up vertical on the plane of swing at some point. So then, how and what causes the string to "release"?

 

[birly-shirly]

handpath - and if your string were rigid, I think you would probably need to apply some muscular force and hand action just so as not to slow, or impede, the release of the "string" and weight

 

[SteveT]

This is obviously a scientific problem that requires a scientific solution.... where is mandrin when you need him most ...???!!!!!

 

[Pete J]

handpath - and if your string were rigid, I think you would probably need to apply some muscular force and hand action just so as not to slow, or impede, the release of the "string" and weight

So what is the purpose of the "release".........more CH speed or squaring the face or both?

 

[bluebird]

Once upon a time a traveler asked directions to Utopia. Being naive and gullible he eagerly accepted his directions that insisted he go thru the town of Shanksville. Soon after a overhearing passerby warned him, stay away from that town, there is a new road that has been proclaimed, that doesn't send you thru that town of desolation. There is a release that steers all free from drive holding, dragging the arms and spinning in circles, but the best is the added speed and almost automatic control once you understand the importance of path. Onward the traveler went happy as a lark that there were some kind friends that steered him closer to Utopia. Is true I tell you.

 

[Todd Dugan]

Once upon a time a traveler asked directions to Utopia. Being naive and gullible he eagerly accepted his directions that insisted he go thru the town of Shanksville. Soon after a overhearing passerby warned him, stay away from that town, there is a new road that has been proclaimed, that doesn't send you thru that town of desolation. There is a release that steers all free from drive holding, dragging the arms and spinning in circles, but the best is the added speed and almost automatic control once you understand the importance of path. Onward the traveler went happy as a lark that there were some kind friends that steered him closer to Utopia. Is true I tell you.

I'll take that as a "I don't know".

 

[SteveT]

Searching my bookmarks, here is what I found from mandrin... and I hope it will be helpful for your conundrum.

Link: MYTH_CENTRIFUGAL_FINAL.NB

Link: Untitled

Hope this helps... and I suspect he's done the simple "twirling thing on a string" analysis but I don't have it.

 

[golfie]

I'll take that as a "I don't know".

True words here.

 

[Todd Dugan]

Hmmmm.............. a couple of poor guesses and much silence. Interesting. Well, there's plenty of scientists who have published, in detail, what causes the string, or in the case of the golfer, the shaft, to unhinge.

Let me just say this..............if you videotape yourself swing the string, you can observe that the time when the string passes vertical will coincide very closely with the time that the right arm is no longer straigtening. In the case of an efficient swing, that is when the right arm is fully extended. In the case of an inefficient swing, that could be when the right arm is bending before becoming fully extended. See, we THINK that we release the club around the hands with our wrists, but no good golfer releases the shaft without straightening the right arm also. So in the example of the weight and string, you learn that 1. the string will release WITHOUT a torque at the wrists, and 2. the string will release past vertical when the right arm becomes fully extended.

Sooooooo, want to release earlier? Straighten the right arm earlier. Want to release later? Straighten the right arm later.

 

[birly-shirly]

Hmm - are you saying that the right arm causes the string to release, or just that the right arm tends to straighten around the time that the string releases? Logically, those are 2 very different statements.

Lots of good golfers have their right heel coming off the ground as their clubhead releases. Is that a causal relationship?

Another old training drill is left hand only swings. What causes the release there?

 

[golfie]

Todd,

As a scientific teacher, why do you think that a string is a reasonable approximation for a golf club?

Golfie

 

[Bonesy]

if you out-tossed the string and the weight from the top (ie drag the string for the first foot or so with the weight moving up and away) and then "rode" the max extension of the string for a while, then, in my opinion, the release (or the whip) would be triggered by a shortened left arm (pulling up on the string) which could come from either the left shoulder complex or even a tuck-in of the left elbow (think Jimmy Ballard).

 

[Todd Dugan]

Hmm - are you saying that the right arm causes the string to release, or just that the right arm tends to straighten around the time that the string releases? Logically, those are 2 very different statements.

Lots of good golfers have their right heel coming off the ground as their clubhead releases. Is that a causal relationship?

Another old training drill is left hand only swings. What causes the release there?

The last question is good one. Thought-provoking, as is my original question. But I didn't exactly say that the straightening of the right arm CAUSES the string to release. See, I don't care to support a scientific position which requires much deeper training than I possess. Not here, anyway. There's plenty of other REAL scientists who are happy to do it for me. What I did say was that the time point when the shaft passes vertical will coincide VERY closely with when the right arm is fully extended. And this is easily seen when examining ANY swing, good or bad. Of this, I'm sure.

 

[Todd Dugan]

Todd,

As a scientific teacher, why do you think that a string is a reasonable approximation for a golf club?

Golfie

It is a useful exercise because it allows the person to FEEL a slinging, whipping action. Discover for yourself what you must do to produce greater velocity and a later bottom to the sling. Have a "Ueraka" moment when you realize that it has much less to do with your wrists than you may have previously thought.

 

[Todd Dugan]

Hear this, Flipper. Keep your right arm straightening PAST your left foot. Your welcome.

 

[btp]

"You don't know what you don't know." I love that quote.

 

[mandrin]

An old training concept for feeling an efficient swing is to swing a small weight on the end of a string/rope. If you can get enough swinging force going, the string will become straight and swing in-plane. When you do this, bending the wrists will NOT cause the weight to swing around the hands, since the string is malleable, not rigid. Yet, the weight WILL swing around the hands and thus, the string will line-up vertical on the plane of swing at some point. So then, how and what causes the string to "release"?

Todd,

The wrist action you refer to is very important since it affects low point, path and club face orientation but it does not play an important role in the release action. Just measure the club head speed free wheeling and subsequently swinging adding active wrist action. An impressive illustration of release action using a string can be seen googling 'trebuchet'. The trebuchet is rather similar to a double pendulum model for a golfer but tipsy topsy.

As long as there is no attempt to apply a torque by the wrists, i.e., keeping them very relaxed, there is no difference using a string when kept straight with some tension.The release mechanism for both rigid rod and flexible rope is the same - the pulling force exerted at the proximal end of either rod or rope. An essential requirement is that there is an angle between rope/rod and the applied force vector.

In a golf downswing there is initially very little angle and hence primarily linear acceleration. Very soon the the pulling force turns inwards, the centripetal pulling force dominates, and there is substantial angular acceleration, hence active release of the club. At impact the angle is again very small with club and force vector virtually aligned. The maximum release action occurs somewhat before impact.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Mandrin, thank you for this post.

 

[Todd Dugan]

Todd,

The wrist action you refer to is very important since it affects low point, path and club face orientation but it does not play an important role in the release action. Just measure the club head speed free wheeling and subsequently swinging adding active wrist action. An impressive illustration of release action using a string can be seen googling 'trebuchet'. The trebuchet is rather similar to a double pendulum model for a golfer but tipsy topsy.

As long as there is no attempt to apply a torque by the wrists, i.e., keeping them very relaxed, there is no difference using a string when kept straight with some tension.The release mechanism for both rigid rod and flexible rope is the same - the pulling force exerted at the proximal end of either rod or rope. An essential requirement is that there is an angle between rope/rod and the applied force vector.

In a golf downswing there is initially very little angle and hence primarily linear acceleration. Very soon the the pulling force turns inwards, the centripetal pulling force dominates, and there is substantial angular acceleration, hence active release of the club. At impact the angle is again very small with club and force vector virtually aligned. The maximum release action occurs somewhat before impact.

I think you've confirmed my point...................torque at the wrist axis is NOT a requirement for release. Same for the golfer with a club as it is for a dude with a string. Thank You.

 

[Mike Richardson]

Todd,

The wrist action you refer to is very important since it affects low point, path and club face orientation but it does not play an important role in the release action. Just measure the club head speed free wheeling and subsequently swinging adding active wrist action. An impressive illustration of release action using a string can be seen googling 'trebuchet'. The trebuchet is rather similar to a double pendulum model for a golfer but tipsy topsy.

As long as there is no attempt to apply a torque by the wrists, i.e., keeping them very relaxed, there is no difference using a string when kept straight with some tension.The release mechanism for both rigid rod and flexible rope is the same - the pulling force exerted at the proximal end of either rod or rope. An essential requirement is that there is an angle between rope/rod and the applied force vector.

In a golf downswing there is initially very little angle and hence primarily linear acceleration. Very soon the the pulling force turns inwards, the centripetal pulling force dominates, and there is substantial angular acceleration, hence active release of the club. At impact the angle is again very small with club and force vector virtually aligned. The maximum release action occurs somewhat before impact.

Great post, thank you. Your research at Angelfire is brilliant.