Why the current state of golf instruction sucks...come inside

[Jim Kobylinski]

Instead of piling on the other thread i wanted to make my own for a number of different reasons.

I feel i have UNIQUE insight into this business because of how i got into the game of golf:

1) As a fan
2) As a player (bad one)
3) As a student (books/magazines/friends/etc)
4) As a "lesson taker"
5) As a improving player
6) As a real player (good one)
7) Now as a teacher

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So you can see why i feel i have unique insight. As someone who's made a sizable journey who came from basically nothing who can now teach and honestly, if i had enough time i bet i could give the Hooter's Tour a try (whether i'd fail or not i could have a legitimate chance) i'll tell you why current golf handicaps are not going down and why gold instruction sucks:

1) The majority of people who take lessons take it for entertainment or just want enough to beat their buddies.
2) The majority of pros teaching aren't making their big dollars from teaching so they don't put their emphasis on it OR they don't enough put enough time to learn anything about the swing and thus pass on the current pop instruction of the month (but there's a reason for that see below)

You combine the above 2 together and you get teachers who don't improve and players who really don't want to improve that much and you have a recipe for high handicaps.

You have to understand that most of the people on this site ARE THE MINORITY! The average high handicap isn't going to go online and look how to improve their game. They will just buy equiptment and watch the golf channel or MAAAAAAAAAAYBE they'll post a question on something they need a "tip" on in the "instruction section" of say FGI or BSG.

Now am i trying to change all of this? Of course i am, that's my job. I'm trying to make a difference but not every teacher is going to and not every student is going to either.

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Teaching golf is as close to sales than any other job i've ever been associated with. So you better be a pretty good salesmen with a good product to sell and have a willing buyer to be any good else you won't be selling anything anytime soon.

So you tell me, what's harder? Selling something that your prospective customer on TV sees or something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT that they have never heard of?

For the majority of teachers, they'll go with option A. Brian, myself, four barrels, Tom, etc, etc, we will use option B and we will PROVE to the student that what we have to sell is worth more because we get them to really hit a ball properly in that first 30-40minutes and i'm sure they would all agree on the same reaction you get from your student:

- They watch the ball soar almost perfectly dead straight
- Right at their target
- In almost perfect balance
- They look back with utter awe in their eyes and ask something like "what do we have to work on next to do that all the time?"

By then, you could convince them to put ketchep on their grips and they'd listen

 

[rundmc]

Do you reckon golf is taught or is it learnt?

I could sell golf a lot easier than the crap I gotta pimp everyday.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Do you reckon golf is taught or is it learnt?

I could sell golf a lot easier than the crap I gotta pimp everyday.

Bit of both, just like someone has to buy something you sell.

Maybe you should, sure is working for RABITO! LOL

 

[swingeasttowest]

Lessons

Jim, you have all the credentials to become a good teacher, especially to teach the ones that had your bad habbits when you were a bad golfer and showing them what to do to correct it, like you did.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Jim, you have all the credentials to become a good teacher, especially to teach the ones that had your bad habbits when you were a bad golfer and showing them what to do to correct it, like you did.

The trick though is that how i got rid of them isn't necessarily always the way you would get rid of them. I know what's causing it, so i just have to be creative enough to get you to get rid of it.

Make sense?

 

[Martee]

1) The majority of people who take lessons take it for entertainment or just want enough to beat their buddies.
2) The majority of pros teaching aren't making their big dollars from teaching so they don't put their emphasis on it OR they don't enough put enough time to learn anything about the swing and thus pass on the current pop instruction of the month (but there's a reason for that see below)

That is a good summary.

I think the instructors at 'golf schools' do depend upon teaching impressions, not results to get repeat business and new business.

I also think student's expectations drive a lot of what they get. Everyone wants a five minute fix and 300 yds, and with some swings that isn't going to happen, at least not both at once. Probably the majority of golfers I have seen on the various ranges and who have attended golf schools, it really is about your #1. Guess thats why they can quote to you the latest golf mag tip or their favorite ones even though they haven't benefited from them.

I have to believe that a golf instructor who is an independent contractor that has 'Been There, Seen That, Done That' is better equipped to be good golf instructor. Book knowledge is one thing but experience and success is totally another thing.

 

[Brian Manzella]

I have to believe that a golf instructor who is an independent contractor that has 'Been There, Seen That, Done That' is better equipped to be good golf instructor. Book knowledge is one thing but experience and success is totally another thing.

Marty,

Thanks.

Some how, experience is very important—unless I am the one with the experience.

You made my morning, and it didn't start very well.

 

[dodger]

Jim's condemnation of the average student seems a little harsh. The problem is how the average teacher is selected. Most of the time average golfers have no idea who to see, other than golf magazines, word of mouth and other unreliable sources. Also, most of them, other than golfing machine instructors insist that you will worsen initially, and then blame your lack of patience for the failure. One "top fifty" instructor had me hitting the ball worse for months after the lesson. My question is that while consistency may take a while, should'nt good results be immediate? If there is not a definite improvement in contact and ball flight, why is that the student's fault. Obviously one can fall back into bad habits, but if attempting a change results in horrible contact or trajectory on every attempt, shouldn't something else be considered? What works as far as the golfing machine is concerned is the options available for the teacher. As opposed to the Ballard, Mclean or Leadbetter type, golfing machine instructors have much more flexibility in my opinion. This is a good topic, thanks Jim.

 

[tourdeep]

Maybe it does suck from those in the know, but I happen to think golf instruction has improved overall, thanks to the minority of gifted instructors and technology...

And the indfference in the handicap over the years, imo, do not tell the entire story. It is not the real measurement of whether the majority of golfers have improved from instruction or what role technology plays.

And speaking of minority, absolutely, those reading the "Brian's" are in the minority as well as those gifted folks who earn a dollar or two chasing the little white ball. Pros are privy to hours of personal instruction, are more dedicated, and have the luxury of time relative to the rest of us. One only has to go to the PGA tour and see the goliath drives and lower and lower scores. Look at the competition in triple A ball. How about the women too? The few are just getting so darned better! Certainly a result of exposrue to better instruction and technology...so why are them and not the us getting better?

How about the courses? Getting easier/tougher?

Do the economic demands of today place a premium on time and that the masses simply can't afford to get better? In other words, if golf were as accessible as playground hoops, where would golf be today?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Jim's condemnation of the average student seems a little harsh. The problem is how the average teacher is selected. Most of the time average golfers have no idea who to see, other than golf magazines, word of mouth and other unreliable sources. Also, most of them, other than golfing machine instructors insist that you will worsen initially, and then blame your lack of patience for the failure. One "top fifty" instructor had me hitting the ball worse for months after the lesson. My question is that while consistency may take a while, should'nt good results be immediate? If there is not a definite improvement in contact and ball flight, why is that the student's fault. Obviously one can fall back into bad habits, but if attempting a change results in horrible contact or trajectory on every attempt, shouldn't something else be considered? What works as far as the golfing machine is concerned is the options available for the teacher. As opposed to the Ballard, Mclean or Leadbetter type, golfing machine instructors have much more flexibility in my opinion. This is a good topic, thanks Jim.

I stand by my statements.

Also, that whole "get worse before you get better thing" is crap. I have NEVER EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER left a student after a lesson hitting the ball worse. EVER!

If you know what you're doing and you know how to communicate well enough you should have the student hitting the ball better in the first lesson. Hell it's the only way you can guarrantee them coming back.

I always guarrantee the following in ALLLL of my lessons and i have yet to fail:

1) You will ALWAYS leave my lesson hitting the ball better than when you arrived with no bastardization
2) You will ALWAYS hit AT LEAST ONE (usually more than that) properly compressed golf ball that goes dead at your target with little to no deviation.
3) I will get #2 to happen anywhere from 30-70 balls depending on current ability level

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The only place where you might "get worse before you get better" is on the course; sometimes. I'm not there to coach you and you have to trust your new "moves" so that is more mental than anything. However I have documented cases of my students shaving strokes off their score first time out and that is WITHOUT putting lessons which is how i shave the most strokes off my students scores.

 

[jbrunk]

I find it interesting how poorly the game is taught at country clubs, an in other magazines and books. Although I have only had one lesson in my life, I am self taught and have read several books about how to swing properly. I have been playing since 1997 and only in the last year by reading some info from this site and another forum have I come to realize the proper way to hit the golf ball.

 

[davidmac00]

unique?

Instead of piling on the other thread i wanted to make my own for a number of different reasons.

I feel i have UNIQUE insight into this business because of how i got into the game of golf:

1) As a fan
2) As a player (bad one)
3) As a student (books/magazines/friends/etc)
4) As a "lesson taker"
5) As a improving player
6) As a real player (good one)
7) Now as a teacher

---------

So you can see why i feel i have unique insight. As someone who's made a sizable journey who came from basically nothing who can now teach and honestly, if i had enough time i bet i could give the Hooter's Tour a try (whether i'd fail or not i could have a legitimate chance) i'll tell you why current golf handicaps are not going down and why gold instruction sucks:

i would say that most,sorry all,pros take the same route to becoming a teacher wouldnt you.i havent met any teaching pro who has picked up a club hit a few balls well then gone on to teach successfully.we all start as fans,we then give it a try,get hooked,start reading mags watching TGC,realise that doesnt work and the go for lessons,start to improve and if we really work hard and be patient we learn how to PLAY and pass on that knowledge to others.
i respect what you do on this forum jim,but unique you are not.
keep posting the good ones,
david mccallum.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

What you don't realize is that a lot of "good players" who don't know why they are good decide to become pros, pass the PAT (because they can play with whatever swing they have) and then they go teach.

The majority of pros that i know who teach always had game just didn't know why they did they just know what worked for them and they try and use that to teach others and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

So i would still characterize myself as unique in the sense that i had NO GAME and went through all the above. Now i'm not saying that ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL other pros are what i said in the first paragraph but the majority i know are.

 

[Ryan Smither]

Nomination...

"Post of the Day", Jim

 

[golfie]

Yesterday I had to listen to the young teaching pro at my club give a lesson to a 60 yo gent who was let us say mobility impaired. Argg. And of course he was trying to make him a swinger - just like the pro.

EDIT: Should have mentioned that he had obvious hitter tendencies - just needed to deliver a bent right wrist.

 

[Ryan Smither]

Golf Instructors...

Some golfers who can play, can teach.

But most people are quick to conclude that anyone who can play golf at a high level, must be great teachers also.

In the words of an 'ole ball coach: "Not so fast, my friend."

 

[Loubert]

So i would still characterize myself as unique in the sense that i had NO GAME and went through all the above. Now i'm not saying that ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL other pros are what i said in the first paragraph but the majority i know are.

Jim,

I'd suggest calling yourself "rare" (atypical) rather than "unique" (the only one), since there is probably at least one other high-handicapper out there who got it together and decided to teach.

In any case, keep letting us know how things are going. Of all the posters here, I enjoy reading your posts the most. Your optimism and enthusiasm for your new role clearly show, with no hints of being jaded.

Lou

 

[birdie_man]

I can't stand that phrase "Can't beat me?- can't teach me."

I think if anyone said that to me I'd punch them in the nose.

 

[Steve Khatib]

Its obvious why teaching sucks and it is exactly related to all Jim holiday inn's points. The PGA are to blame from the root cause of it all. The buck stops with them!

 

[Perfect Impact]

Yes: they proclaim their "go see your local PGA pro" without any regard for their integrity whatsoever. And capitalize on that expectation. It reminds me of using CPAs - Certified PUBLIC ACCOUNTANTS - to lie for the big companies--and of all professions in the world, THE VERY NATURE OF CERTIFICATION is that the public has a right to trust them. That is the very heart of their mandate. It is treachery of the most despicable and pernicious kind. A bit like a priest, religious guru (the bigamist currently in the news), or teacher taking advantage of vulnerable children. The higher the expectation of integrity, the greater the dudgeon!

As mentioned, passing a PAT of moderate accomplishment is ALL it takes to get membership...The culture of that disorganization is decades deep in the same syndrome. Some things never change. The devil wins a lot in this world...