hip rotation and swing path

[Erik_K]

For the longest time I have had issues with the backswing. In particular I used to have a pronounced sway off the ball (weight would sometimes gather on the outside portion of the right foot). With my last lesson with Brian, we worked on more rotation and less 'sway' off the ball.

The other backswing issue is the proper hip turn. I have noticed that I have a MUCH easier time hitting the inside of the ball when I let my hips turn freely. No hip restriction. No effort made to have a very large shoulder turn and minimal hip turn. As I was taking practice swings the other night I found that if I try to 'moon' the target, it felt like I was actually making a bigger turn with far less effort and strain on my lower back. At the same time, with this extra 'room,' I felt that there was more space to deliver the club to the inside.

One other thing. Brian has said, a number of times, that it sometimes necessary to have the the right leg straighten a bit (angle remains the same, i.e. no hip sway). Again, when I want to have a better hip turn, straightening the right leg, just a tad, promotes more rotation for me.

I have some old video where you can clearly see my swing fighting the right hip. I needed to swing around the right hip, and that fosters a steeper in-to-out path coupled with an early release. When I was making the practice swings with a more concerted effort to monitor the hip turn in the mirror, I could really swing aggressively (still in balance mind you) AND I could see the blur of the clubhead path-very much inside-out.

Thoughts??

Erik

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

What you are describing is what most pros did in the early days, i'm a young guy but the first person who came up with the hip rotation restriction was Jack Nicklaus.

All i know is that i never heard of Bobby Jones, Sam Snead, Byron Nelson, etc with hip problems but Jack needed a replacment .

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[golfbulldog]

What you are describing is what most pros did in the early days, i'm a young guy but the first person who came up with the hip rotation restriction was Jack Nicklaus.

All i know is that i never heard of Bobby Jones, Sam Snead, Byron Nelson, etc with hip problems but Jack needed a replacment .

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Link to hip replacement story - seems like left hip was the problem

http://www.aboutstryker.com/hip/stories/jack.php

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/spotlighthealth/2003-10-07-nicklaus-hip_x.htm

 

[Chris Sturgess]

What you are describing is what most pros did in the early days, i'm a young guy but the first person who came up with the hip rotation restriction was Jack Nicklaus.

All i know is that i never heard of Bobby Jones, Sam Snead, Byron Nelson, etc with hip problems but Jack needed a replacment .

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

What....Jack Nicklaus didn't come up with hip rotation restriction, where are you getting that info. He had the opposite mentality, he always had and advocated an extremely full hip turn. His hip problems started in 1963. He had an especially huge hip turn back then. So if anything contributed to his hip problems it was too much hip turn not too little. Restricting hip turn hurts your lower back not your hips by the way.

Ben Hogan was the first to talk about hip rotation restriction.

 

[teeithigh]

erik, sounds like a stack and tilt pattern that is helping you as brian has you more centered with the right leg straightening on the backswing,,,this pattern has greatly stopped my sway to the right as well......steven

 

[Bigwill]

What....Jack Nicklaus didn't come up with hip rotation restriction, where are you getting that info. He had the opposite mentality, he always had and advocated an extremely full hip turn. His hip problems started in 1963. He had an especially huge hip turn back then. So if anything contributed to his hip problems it was too much hip turn not too little. Restricting hip turn hurts your lower back not your hips by the way.

Ben Hogan was the first to talk about hip rotation restriction.

Jack stressed keeping the rear knee flexed. In most people, if not everybody, that will equate to less hip turn than allowing the knee to straighten on the backswing. Flexibility will dictate how much turn there actually is. That's why some people should consider allowing the knee to straighten; so that they can have sufficient hip turn in the backswing. By the way, anchoring the knee can stress not only the back, but the hip and knee, particularly if there are flexibility issues.

 

[Chris Sturgess]

First of all Jim said this...

i'm a young guy but the first person who came up with the hip rotation restriction was Jack Nicklaus.

That is flat out wrong. Nicklaus actually says "you should never try to restrict your hip turn if you want to hit the ball a long way" and says what's now known as the x factor theory is crap in Golf My Way.

Jack stressed keeping the rear knee flexed. In most people, if not everybody, that will equate to less hip turn than allowing the knee to straighten on the backswing. Flexibility will dictate how much turn there actually is. That's why some people should consider allowing the knee to straighten; so that they can have sufficient hip turn in the backswing.

When Jack is talking about keeping the rear knee flexed he is saying not to ever have it locked. He is not saying to have a flexed knee at address and just keep it there without really turning on it like x factor advocates would suggest. You are kind of wrong about allowing the rear leg to straighten helping hip turn. A locked rear leg will actually limit hip turn as compared to a just slightly bent one. Lessening the knee flex from flexed to just slightly flexed could help though. But really, not very much even with people with low flexibility. And most people who think they have hip flexibility issues don't actually have a flexibility problem but instead have a knowing how to use their body problem. They simply don't know how to activate their right glute to get a real hip turn.

By the way, anchoring the knee can stress not only the back, but the hip and knee, particularly if there are flexibility issues.

I never said it didn't, so I don't know what you think your point is. I said that not turning your hips on the backswing will hurt your back and not your hips.

Here is Jack's extremely full hip turn:
http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showpost.php?p=104465&postcount=5

 

[Bigwill]

When Jack is talking about keeping the rear knee flexed he is saying not to ever have it locked. He is not saying to have a flexed knee at address and just keep it there without really turning on it like x factor advocates would suggest. You are kind of wrong about allowing the rear leg to straighten helping hip turn. A locked rear leg will actually limit hip turn as compared to a just slightly bent one. Lessening the knee flex from flexed to just slightly flexed could help though.

I never meant to imply anything about locking the rear leg; you read wrong. I'm saying the same thing you are about straightening (lessening the flex of) the right knee. What I was saying was that allowing the knee to straighten would result in more hip turn than if you didn't, which seems to agree with the last sentence above.

They simply don't know how to activate their right glute to get a real hip turn.

Using the right glute willl not aid in hip turn on the backswing. In fact it would hinder it; the only thing that activating the right glute will do in the backswing is to cause you come out of your posture. It will, however, help the hip turn on the forward swing (which I don't think we're talking about in this thread).

I never said it didn't, so I don't know what you think your point is. I said that not turning your hips on the backswing will hurt your back and not your hips.

I THINK my point is that limiting freedom at the knee joint, which will aid in limiting the hip turn, like I'd already said, is going to put stress on the back, hips, and knees. How do you think you'll resist the hip turn, if not with the lower body? That resistance stresses the joints of the lower body as well as the back.

 

[Chris Sturgess]

I never meant to imply anything about locking the rear leg; you read wrong. I'm saying the same thing you are about straightening (lessening the flex of) the right knee. What I was saying was that allowing the knee to straighten would result in more hip turn than if you didn't, which seems to agree with the last sentence above.

I didn't read it wrong, you wrote it ambiguously. Saying to straighten the rear leg could easily mean completely straighten.

Using the right glute willl not aid in hip turn on the backswing. In fact it would hinder it; the only thing that activating the right glute will do in the backswing is to cause you come out of your posture. It will, however, help the hip turn on the forward swing (which I don't think we're talking about in this thread).

Um, ok, activate does not necessarily mean a concentric contraction. It can mean eccentric and isometric as well. Activating your right glute and hamstring by sitting back into them while trying to turn on your backswing will help anyone get a fuller hip turn. If you get up and try it right now then you will understand.

I THINK my point is that limiting freedom at the knee joint, which will aid in limiting the hip turn, like I'd already said, is going to put stress on the back, hips, and knees. How do you think you'll resist the hip turn, if not with the lower body? That resistance stresses the joints of the lower body as well as the back.

Apparently you are having an argument with an imaginary character of some kind who has nothing to do with me.

But to answer your question hip turn is commonly resisted while making a shoulder turn on the backswing by using the core not the lower body. And that equals very low stress on the right hip joint, and it is the opposite of what Nicklaus did. People like to obnoxiously use all caps around here so I'll say Nicklaus tried to turn his hips HARD!!! If you want to say that how he turned his hips HARD with a flexed right knee caused him hip problems then I would say that makes sense. But the key is that he was trying HARD to turn his hips, whereas x factor people do the opposite, they don't try to turn their hips at all, they try to keep them still.