Is a "pull" natural....

Status
Not open for further replies.
P

puttmad

New
It occurred to me recently that most players unmanipulated bad shots were based on an out to in motion of the club...
By unmanipulated, I mean when they are not forcing the clubface to stay open (push or push slice)...

Even the pros unmanipulated misses are mainly pulls (as far as I can see)....

Does that mean that an out-to in swing is natural to most golfers...and if that is the case, why do we spend so much time trying to correct it?....Why don't we simply work with out-to-in...

Some years ago I read a book by a guy who was advocating exactly that..His theory was that if you give an average person an axe and ask them to go and chop down a tree, you will more than likely see them set up to the tree with their feet extremely closed and they will swing the axe right across their left hip in a natural out-to-in fashion..
Why don't we do the same with our golf swing....do the feet really have to be square to the target, or is that just a visual crutch?...
Thoughts anyone?...:)
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
I thought about this too at length some time ago. Trying it myself, the angle invariably got to high and narrow with the shots too low, divots too deep. Alot of amateurs, I'm convinced, would be better served to work on a high right shoulder pull draw from slightly out to in. I would like to hear some thoughts on this as well.
 
self-mastery

self-mastery

New
Jim you have answered this before, but I will ask again! How do you set up for a Snead pull draw?

Is it possible to hit a hard pull fade from a closed stance?

All of my longest drives are pulls that end up in the next fairway.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Jonathan Kaye (what happened to him?), hit the hardest pull fade, at least a 20 yard pull, from a very closed stance. In his prime Duval often pull faded it.
 
J

JeffM

New member
puttmad

I think that an out-to-in clubhead swingpath is only natural if one starts the downswing with an overhand shoulder rotation.

An in-to-out clubhead swingpath is more natural if one starts the downswing with an underhand downswing action. Starting the downswing with a "correct" hip action gets the body correctly positioned for an underhand swing action - as demonstrated by Ben Hogan in this posed photo.

HoganPowerPackage.jpg


Jeff.
 
c21heel

c21heel

New
JeffMann, I like the way you explained that. Makes a lot of sense. With regard to the right arm, it is interesting to note in the Hogan picture that the right elbow leads while the right forearm remains pointing to the sky. If not timed well, could lead to a huge push slice?
 
Last edited:
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
c21heel said:
JeffMann, I like the way you explained that. Makes a lot of sense. With regard to the right arm, it is interesting to note in the Hogan picture that the right elbow leads while the right forearm remains pointing to the sky. If not timed well, could lead to a huge push slice?
Click to expand...

that is not what hogan actually did, it was a "feel move" for him. If you look at his actual swing the club isn't nearly in that open of a position in the same spot.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Brian Manzella said:
Geez...I did a whole FREE video on this....
Click to expand...

Yes you did.

For others, look up all the videos Brian posted up on youtube in the one where he did a video answer AT NIGHT and i think somewhere in the middle he answers a question about playing a pull shot.

in short, the ball doesn't know and if you want to play that way have at it. Only thing i would say is that you might want to get your irons bent a little weaker so that when the pull delofts the club you are not delofting too much. Long irons would get a little difficult to get in the air if you didn't.
 
J

JeffM

New member
Jim wrote-: "that is not what hogan actually did, it was a "feel move" for him. If you look at his actual swing the club isn't nearly in that open of a position in the same spot."

Here is a "real life" photo-sequence of Ben Hogan's downswing action.

HoganLag.jpg


Jeff.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Jeff the club is much more closed in the actual swing sequence than in the other photo. Also if you watch the video of this particular swing you can see hogan doing the same move you posted before.

I mean come on, you can't tell that in the photo on the previous page that if hogan really did that move he wouldn't shank it?
 
J

JeffM

New member
Jim - I wasn't disputing your assertion. I merely posted a photo sequence of Hogan's "real" swing to demonstrate what really happens during his "real life" swing. It certainly demonstrates an underhand (side-arm) swing style.

Jeff.
 
cmartingolf

cmartingolf

New
Remember Jim Nelford?? Fine player who was run over while water skiing and severed one of his arms. We played (about 18 years ago) when he was trying to get back to the Tour. He it it pretty darn well, but I guess he wasn't what he was prior to the accident. He promoted a pull action. I heard from someone that he was going to try and teach the method.

Some of you in Scottsdale might know more about this?
 
P

puttmad

New
...

JeffMann said:
Jim - I wasn't disputing your assertion. I merely posted a photo sequence of Hogan's "real" swing to demonstrate what really happens during his "real life" swing. It certainly demonstrates an underhand (side-arm) swing style.

Jeff.
Click to expand...

Jeff,

Previous pics are nothing like his real swing..
Look at the position of his left shoulder..
There is nowhere in his real swing where his left shoulder is in that positon and his hand that high....

Plus which, the original post was for "most" golfers...and what is natural for them, and it is not natural (obviously) for them to do an underhand throw, otherwise they would be doing it...:)
 
Last edited:
J

JeffM

New member
Puttmad

You need to consider camera angle - the cameraman is probably standing far forward of Hogan, and not directly opposite Hogan, and is photographing Hogan from a slight angle. and that creates the distortions that you mentioned.

It is true that most golfers use an overhand swing. That's why they need golf instruction - so that they can shallow their clubshaft attack angle by developing a shallowing move at the start of the downswing. The shallowing move converts an overhand swing to a more underhand (side-arm) swing.

Jeff.
 
tourdeep

tourdeep

New
self-mastery said:
Can we have one day where we don't mention Hogan's name??? Friday is going to be Sam Snead day!
Click to expand...

HoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganvHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganvHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganvHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganvHoganHoganHoganHoganHoganHogan....:)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top