Is a "pull" natural....

[James Marshall (Hogan1953)]

You only have to look at the angles of the shoulders to the ground to notice that in the real swing the left shoulder is much lower throughout the downswing and as a consequence the left arm much more parallel to the target line. Not even in frame 7 is the shoulder as high as in the posed shot.

Notice how little the hands have moved from frame 2 to frame 3 but how significantly the distance of the shaft to the right shoulder has increased.

 

[puttmad]

....

Puttmad

You need to consider camera angle - the cameraman is probably standing far forward of Hogan, and not directly opposite Hogan, and is photographing Hogan from a slight angle. and that creates the distortions that you mentioned.

It is true that most golfers use an overhand swing. That's why they need golf instruction - so that they can shallow their clubshaft attack angle by developing a shallowing move at the start of the downswing. The shallowing move converts an overhand swing to a more underhand (side-arm) swing.

Jeff.

Jeff,
You are seeing things that are not really there, matey....

 

[Chris Sturgess]

I would not say that a pull swing is natural (in a good way) just because that is the first thing that most people do when they first pick up a golf club. First of all realize that these people are almost all terrible players. And think about other athletic motions. Is throwing a ball "like a girl" natural (in a good way) too? Because that is how people who have never thrown a ball before (both male and female) normally throw it. Maybe Peyton Manning should try to incorporate a little more girliness into his throwing movement. Is toe-ing a soccer ball a more natural and effective movement too? Since that is what a newcomer to the game would do way before they would attempt to turn their hips and swing their instep around into the ball. Why doesn't anyone kick it that way in the world cup or for a field goal in the nfl? Probably because what is "natural" is not always best or for that matter coordinated.

 

[yoonie]

I would not say that a pull swing is natural (in a good way) just because that is the first thing that most people do when they first pick up a golf club. First of all realize that these people are almost all terrible players. And think about other athletic motions. Is throwing a ball "like a girl" natural (in a good way) too? Because that is how people who have never thrown a ball before (both male and female) normally throw it. Maybe Peyton Manning should try to incorporate a little more girliness into his throwing movement. Is toe-ing a soccer ball a more natural and effective movement too? Since that is what a newcomer to the game would do way before they would attempt to turn their hips and swing their instep around into the ball. Why doesn't anyone kick it that way in the world cup or for a field goal in the nfl? Probably because what is "natural" is not always best or for that matter coordinated.

I dunno if that analogy applies- sure, when people FIRST try the athletic movements you're talking about, that might be true, but if you look at kicking or throwing a ball, most of the "girly" motions you talk about are because of undeveloped motor skills (as in, usually the first time someone throws a ball is when they're 3 years old). However, unlike kicking or throwing, OTT moves continue to plague players who have played for YEARS. I can't think of anyone who doesn't eventually figure out how to throw a ball within a few months, at the most.

I think Sam Snead is a great example because he is probably one of hte most athletic people to have ever played golf (though I'm sure that's changing these days), and generally not a technical player, and he played a pull.

 

[birdie_man]

So long as you can do it consistently and it doesn't get out of control and you are comfy with it I don't see how it can be a bad thing to play a pull or a slight draw.

One real good thing about that to me is that if you want a fade all you have to do is open the clubface at address. Very simple. And you know it's still gonna be real solid. (pulls are SOLID)

 

[Chris Sturgess]

I dunno if that analogy applies- sure, when people FIRST try the athletic movements you're talking about, that might be true, but if you look at kicking or throwing a ball, most of the "girly" motions you talk about are because of undeveloped motor skills (as in, usually the first time someone throws a ball is when they're 3 years old). However, unlike kicking or throwing, OTT moves continue to plague players who have played for YEARS. I can't think of anyone who doesn't eventually figure out how to throw a ball within a few months, at the most.

I think Sam Snead is a great example because he is probably one of hte most athletic people to have ever played golf (though I'm sure that's changing these days), and generally not a technical player, and he played a pull.

Coming over the top for a pull on a golf ball (usually a pull slice) is also because of undeveloped motor skills, I don't care how long someone has been trying. A lot of people could try to throw a football for years and would never throw it 50 yards and the same thing goes with a 40 yard field goal. A golf swing is a harder thing to master than those two anyway. Just because someone has played golf for "YEARS" (all caps are obnoxious) that doesn't mean they have developed their motor skills.

By coming over the top for a pull I am talking about coming into the ball from the outside in. Not just setting up with a slightly closed stance and swinging the club inside on the backswing and then coming down with your right elbow on your hip with a clubhead path perfectly symmetrical to the target line like Sam Snead did. If you are truly hitting a pull, your elbow is going to be way off your hip. From a closed stance, most people could not clear their hips and turn through the ball if they tried, and they would hit some weak shot with a blocked off followthrough motion. Snead doesn't have any problem turning his hips ahead of his upper body from a closed stance. But unless somebody is flexible like him it probably won't be very pretty.

Birdie, pulls are only "SOLID" because of a steeper angle of attack. If you are good at contacting the ball that is not a factor that needs to be worried about.

 

[birdie_man]

""SOLID.""

Man, CAPS SURE DO get the POINT across when you put em to GOOD USE(age).

lol....

BTW I guess it simply also has to do with the face being more closed.....hmmmm.....simple enough...I didn't think while typing though.

 

[yoonie]

Coming over the top for a pull on a golf ball (usually a pull slice) is also because of undeveloped motor skills, I don't care how long someone has been trying. A lot of people could try to throw a football for years and would never throw it 50 yards and the same thing goes with a 40 yard field goal. A golf swing is a harder thing to master than those two anyway. Just because someone has played golf for "YEARS" (all caps are obnoxious) that doesn't mean they have developed their motor skills.

By coming over the top for a pull I am talking about coming into the ball from the outside in. Not just setting up with a slightly closed stance and swinging the club inside on the backswing and then coming down with your right elbow on your hip with a clubhead path perfectly symmetrical to the target line like Sam Snead did. If you are truly hitting a pull, your elbow is going to be way off your hip. From a closed stance, most people could not clear their hips and turn through the ball if they tried, and they would hit some weak shot with a blocked off followthrough motion. Snead doesn't have any problem turning his hips ahead of his upper body from a closed stance. But unless somebody is flexible like him it probably won't be very pretty.

Birdie, pulls are only "SOLID" because of a steeper angle of attack. If you are good at contacting the ball that is not a factor that needs to be worried about.

Sorry sir, I'll try to follow your rules of proper capitalization etiquette, unless when I'm INTENTIONALLY trying ot be OBNOXIOUS instead of trying to EMPHASIZE a POINT. What IS obnoxious is your tone.

In regards to your point about throwing a ball 50 yards, I know very few full grown adults who are unable to throw a ball with some modicum of orthodox form. I know many adults who are unable to swing a golf club in a way that even remotely resembles a swing.