won't stop flipping!

[dannyc]

allright guys...very frustrating...

it seems i hit the ball "better" with a flip. i need to find a way to take away the "reward" of flipping.
i played 36 holes in the last two days without a single divot.
i know what i am trying to do, and i know i am not supposed to flip the club, but i won't stop for some reason.
i can actually feel myself now standing up to "make room" for the flip like brian talks about in cff.
to make it even worse, i hit a bunch of fairways and greens and "played" well, but i know i am just timing the flip.
HELP!

 

[fronesis]

I've been there. Two ideas.

1. Check out Brian's set up post (in the archives) and make sure you are far enough away from the ball. I find that when I get too close to the ball it makes it 'easy' to stand up and time the flip. When I bend over properly and stand away from the ball, it encourages me to hit down and through with a FLW. If you are far enough away from the ball, flipping it will lead to weak toed shots, so moving away forces you to give up the flip.

2. Make sure you are controlling the clubface, and rotating it off the plane on the downswing. Flipping is often a bad solution for squaring the clubface. But if you are squaring it properly, then if you flip it you will hook the *rap out of it. So rotate the face off the plane and you won't want to flip it.

 

[dannyc]

I've been there. Two ideas.

1. Check out Brian's set up post (in the archives) and make sure you are far enough away from the ball. I find that when I get too close to the ball it makes it 'easy' to stand up and time the flip. When I bend over properly and stand away from the ball, it encourages me to hit down and through with a FLW. If you are far enough away from the ball, flipping it will lead to weak toed shots, so moving away forces you to give up the flip.


2. Make sure you are controlling the clubface, and rotating it off the plane on the downswing. Flipping is often a bad solution for squaring the clubface. But if you are squaring it properly, then if you flip it you will hook the *rap out of it. So rotate the face off the plane and you won't want to flip it.

i'll give #1 a shot. as far as #2 goes, i have nsa, and i understand this point. i think i fell into the "poorly cured slicer" category. but now, i don't think i flip in order to square the clubface. it seems i just really wanna "do something" with my hands.

 

[Slicey McDuff]

*disclaimer*
I only recently broke 50 for 9 so I'm a HACK

What worked very well for me to cure the "want to use hands" scenario is a heck of a lot of chipping practice.

There aint no wrists in chipping

From there progress to pitching, and then work your way up through the irons to maybe your 6 or 5 maintaining the lower case "y" shape with arms and club as long as possible through the shot.
You will be surprised how long and straight you can make it fly if you are just using your pivot to hit the ball.

Don't try to hit it miles, just practice the feel, because obviously that's not how you want to hit the ball on the longer shots but it did wonders for me as far as getting my wrists out of the shot.

I'm sure there are "more technically correct" ways to cure it, but that method worked for me, and with the added bonus that I'm now deadly around the greens

 

[spktho]

*disclaimer*
I only recently broke 50 for 9 so I'm a HACK

What worked very well for me to cure the "want to use hands" scenario is a heck of a lot of chipping practice.

There aint no wrists in chipping

From there progress to pitching, and then work your way up through the irons to maybe your 6 or 5 maintaining the lower case "y" shape with arms and club as long as possible through the shot.
You will be surprised how long and straight you can make it fly if you are just using your pivot to hit the ball.

Don't try to hit it miles, just practice the feel, because obviously that's not how you want to hit the ball on the longer shots but it did wonders for me as far as getting my wrists out of the shot.

I'm sure there are "more technically correct" ways to cure it, but that method worked for me, and with the added bonus that I'm now deadly around the greens

This worked really well to stop flipping for me as well. Chipping with no lag and then pitching with lag, but getting to the flat left wrist at and past contact. This gets you able to stop the ball with spin around the greens also. Now I need continue working on the proper wrist rotation for direction control on full shots.

 

[dannyc]

another observation i made yesterday after yet another round without a divot. i think i want to "do something" with my hands because i am very "ball bound." although i have some success with the "wall of china" drill, for some reason when i hit balls, the bottom of my swing seems to always be located where i am looking (at the ball). if i look five or six inches in front of the ball and just let it get in the way, i get more compression and a better trajectory.
however, this seems like a band aid approach. i have to figure out a way to retrain my hands since i have been it this way for the better part of a decade.
gotta find a way to take away the reward.

 

[Erik_K]

An old Ben Doyle drill (one that I've elaborated on more than once).

Get in the bunker and draw a line in the sand.

Proceed to take half swings with the wedge or 9-iron. You are striving to make contact just in front of the line. The plane line should be straight; the divot should be relatively straight.

If you are flipping, it's tough to strike the sand as described above.

Now it is possible, that is this is largely a set up related issue. Maybe you do need someone to take a hard look at your stance and ball position. Maybe you are just hitting ever so so slightly up on the ball with all shots (maybe not much of a flip). However, I think that is unlikely.

It could be a path-related issue...maybe you are too far underplane?

 

[dannyc]

An old Ben Doyle drill (one that I've elaborated on more than once).

Get in the bunker and draw a line in the sand.

Proceed to take half swings with the wedge or 9-iron. You are striving to make contact just in front of the line. The plane line should be straight; the divot should be relatively straight.

If you are flipping, it's tough to strike the sand as described above.

Now it is possible, that is this is largely a set up related issue. Maybe you do need someone to take a hard look at your stance and ball position. Maybe you are just hitting ever so so slightly up on the ball with all shots (maybe not much of a flip). However, I think that is unlikely.

It could be a path-related issue...maybe you are too far underplane?

yeah, i don't think it is a setup issue either since i don't take a divot regardless of where it is in my stance.
i've done a variation of the drill you describe...i do it the way brian describes it in "over and out." i usually "take the line out" 80 to 90% of the time. usually, the flippage returns when i put a ball in front of me. for example, i can take the line out, like i said, about 90% of the time, but i hit fairway bunker shots crisply about 10% of the time...
as far as path goes, i don't know exactly how being underplane affects my wrist breaking down, if anyone could elaborate. my normal shot is a draw, so i swing a bit to the right....how do i tell if i'm underplane?

 

[pecky987]

yeah, i don't think it is a setup issue either since i don't take a divot regardless of where it is in my stance.
i've done a variation of the drill you describe...i do it the way brian describes it in "over and out." i usually "take the line out" 80 to 90% of the time. usually, the flippage returns when i put a ball in front of me. for example, i can take the line out, like i said, about 90% of the time, but i hit fairway bunker shots crisply about 10% of the time...
as far as path goes, i don't know exactly how being underplane affects my wrist breaking down, if anyone could elaborate. my normal shot is a draw, so i swing a bit to the right....how do i tell if i'm underplane?

if you get too underplane, you start swinging too far inside-out, and from below the plane to above the plane. this causes you to swing more up. well, maybe not up, but more level to the ground, as opposed to down the plane and through the ball. you can hit clean and thin shots without flipping it this way

 

[dannyc]

if you get too underplane, you start swinging too far inside-out, and from below the plane to above the plane. this causes you to swing more up. well, maybe not up, but more level to the ground, as opposed to down the plane and through the ball. you can hit clean and thin shots without flipping it this way

hmmm....perhaps i should look into this...
what would that look like from DTL on video?

 

[pecky987]

hmmm....perhaps i should look into this...
what would that look like from DTL on video?

first thing to look for is when the club is parallel to the ground for the last time before you hit the ball, if your below plane, the club will be pointing well to the right of where you want the ball to go. also look for the post impact. your hands will look to move far away from you can turn over alot

 

[dannyc]

first thing to look for is when the club is parallel to the ground for the last time before you hit the ball, if your below plane, the club will be pointing well to the right of where you want the ball to go. also look for the post impact. your hands will look to move far away from you can turn over alot

hmmm. ok let me think about this and i'll report back.

 

[dannyc]

help bman!

 

[Brian Manzella]

Here ya go....

help bman!

The flip is occurring to assist you in "squaring the face."

Lets start with something simple—moving low point.

Take a tee and put in almost all the way into the ground about two or three inches in front of the ball. Hit 'em both.

Report back.

Could you hot 'em both?

When you did, what was the difference in ball flight from before?

Where did the ball go?

 

[dannyc]

The flip is occurring to assist you in "squaring the face."

Lets start with something simple—moving low point.

Take a tee and put in almost all the way into the ground about two or three inches in front of the ball. Hit 'em both.

Report back.

Could you hot 'em both?

When you did, what was the difference in ball flight from before?

Where did the ball go?

okay...
i could hit them both, i'd say about 50% of the time. when i did, the ball felt compressed, and the ball had a more penetrating flight than my typical "balloon ball." with a twistaway backswing it hit mostly hooks, with a more "to the plane" face, i hit mostly fades or push fades.
when i didn't hit them both, it was mostly chunks, with a hosel rocket being a close second, and a few thins...

???

 

[jenhaoyen]

The flip is occurring to assist you in "squaring the face."

Lets start with something simple—moving low point.

Take a tee and put in almost all the way into the ground about two or three inches in front of the ball. Hit 'em both.

Report back.

Could you hot 'em both?

When you did, what was the difference in ball flight from before?

Where did the ball go?

you could actually hit both and still flip.

If they focus turning the left elbow point to their ribcage would that elimnate the flip?

 

[jenhaoyen]

okay...
i could hit them both, i'd say about 50% of the time. when i did, the ball felt compressed, and the ball had a more penetrating flight than my typical "balloon ball." with a twistaway backswing it hit mostly hooks, with a more "to the plane" face, i hit mostly fades or push fades.
when i didn't hit them both, it was mostly chunks, with a hosel rocket being a close second, and a few thins...

???

haha...man golf is hard. Especially when stuff like this happens, you don't know which way is the right way and your local pga teachers don't know what they are teaching you