Tiger's Putting Thought

[puttmad]

birdie, spot on mate....

Right hand controls the face, it's something you've been doing since you were a kid.....

Leave the "drawspin" and whatever to the pros......for us it is about maximising really accurate blade position...forget the ups and downs on the ball, it is just too difficult and detracts from aim and blade, and to be honest, I doin't think it makes that much difference....
If youv'e ever player snooker or pool, you know how high on the cueball you need to strike it to get "true" topspin....you simply can't contact it that high with a putter....
All it is really doing is slightly minimising a small amount of initial skidding....

 

[needham]

Right hand controls the face,
.

this can not be more wrong. the flat left wrist CONTROLS the CLUBFACE!

 

[magic43]

this can not be more wrong. the flat left wrist CONTROLS the CLUBFACE!

needham,
Not too sure that flw applies when it come to putting. In my own stroke, the left hand is turned to where the back of the left hand is almost facing downward and the right palm is square to the intended line. By turning the left hand under on the grip, it aids in preventing my left wrist from breaking down.

 

[jpvegas1]

I read somewhere that Jackie Burke gave a putting lesson to Nicklaus where he basically told him the left hand holds the club and the right hand controls the stroke, similar to rolling a ball with the right hand. Brian (I think it was Brian) told me that Burke gave the same lesson to Arnie. I guess hitting a high draw with the right hand is Tiger's spin on that advice.

 

[puttmad]

...

this can not be more wrong. the flat left wrist CONTROLS the CLUBFACE!

Sorry needham, I've got data (and results from other people) to prove it...

If you can better an average of 1/10th of one degree from square at impact, be my guest.....

 

[cal7426]

Sorry cal, I totally disagree with you there....if I tell you to roll a ball to the hole, how would you do it?.....

Apples and oranges. When putting I'm not rolling the ball to the hole with my right hand, I'm rolling the ball to the hole with both hands holding a putter. I need to control face and pace. The most efficient and repeatable way of doing that is to have a shoulder controlled stroke. IMHO a right hand dominated stroke may well work on the practice green, but is more likely to break down under pressure.

 

[needham]

Sorry needham, I've got data (and results from other people) to prove it...

If you can better an average of 1/10th of one degree from square at impact, be my guest.....

you keep clinging to that data pal.

 

[puttmad]

...

Apples and oranges. When putting I'm not rolling the ball to the hole with my right hand, I'm rolling the ball to the hole with both hands holding a putter. I need to control face and pace. The most efficient and repeatable way of doing that is to have a shoulder controlled stroke. IMHO a right hand dominated stroke may well work on the practice green, but is more likely to break down under pressure.

Sorry cal, gotta clarify something here...

You said a "shoulder controlled stroke"...for face and pace...

Shoulder action contributes absolutely NOTHING to correct pace...in fact it is detrimental to it..
Shoulder action is a "compromise" move, which is solely intended to AUTOMATICALLY align the blade correctly at impact.....as you know, it is not as reliable as some people would like (just watch TV and note the pushes and pulls)....

Pace (for most players) is controlled by "feel"...and if you are right-handed, feel comes from the right hand...

If you don't believe me, try putting one handed, both left and right, and then come back and tell me which was better...
If you are going to use a shoulder turn it should be in response to the intention of your hands, not the other way around...try it sometime, you may like the results..

 

[puttmad]

...

you keep clinging to that data pal.

needham, I don't have to cling to anything....I've been doing it for over 15 years, I have all the proof I need thanks...
The data (SAM Puttlab) was simply a verification exercise...

 

[Damon Lucas]

Sorry cal, gotta clarify something here...

You said a "shoulder controlled stroke"...for face and pace...

Shoulder action contributes absolutely NOTHING to correct pace...in fact it is detrimental to it..
Shoulder action is a "compromise" move, which is solely intended to AUTOMATICALLY align the blade correctly at impact.....as you know, it is not as reliable as some people would like (just watch TV and note the pushes and pulls)....

Pace (for most players) is controlled by "feel"...and if you are right-handed, feel comes from the right hand...

If you don't believe me, try putting one handed, both left and right, and then come back and tell me which was better...
If you are going to use a shoulder turn it should be in response to the intention of your hands, not the other way around...try it sometime, you may like the results..

Andrew,

You are obviously a good putter.

Notwithstanding that, you do what 'most' players who have written instructional pieces, books, articles have empirically done, which is draw from the particular to the general.

That is, because you have had success with your method, and because many of the people you have helped have had success, then it is your way or the highway.

So some people don't use their right hand to control the face...Roberts, Faxon, Stricker, Chris Riley....they putt ok...

Some people do ...Tiger, Nicklaus, Floyd....great, they do, and they hit pushes and pulls too.

Pace can be controlled by timing as well as 'feel'...And anyway, would be interested in what exactly you mean by feel.

So there are other ways!

 

[vjsinger]

Andrew,

You are obviously a good putter.

Notwithstanding that, you do what 'most' players who have written instructional pieces, books, articles have empirically done, which is draw from the particular to the general.

That is, because you have had success with your method, and because many of the people you have helped have had success, then it is your way or the highway.

So some people don't use their right hand to control the face...Roberts, Faxon, Stricker, Chris Riley....they putt ok...

Some people do ...Tiger, Nicklaus, Floyd....great, they do, and they hit pushes and pulls too.

Pace can be controlled by timing as well as 'feel'...And anyway, would be interested in what exactly you mean by feel.

So there are other ways!

Y.E. Yang

 

[Festus]

Sorry cal, gotta clarify something here...

You said a "shoulder controlled stroke"...for face and pace...

Shoulder action contributes absolutely NOTHING to correct pace...in fact it is detrimental to it..
Shoulder action is a "compromise" move, which is solely intended to AUTOMATICALLY align the blade correctly at impact.....as you know, it is not as reliable as some people would like (just watch TV and note the pushes and pulls)....

Pace (for most players) is controlled by "feel"...and if you are right-handed, feel comes from the right hand...

If you don't believe me, try putting one handed, both left and right, and then come back and tell me which was better...
If you are going to use a shoulder turn it should be in response to the intention of your hands, not the other way around...try it sometime, you may like the results..

I think you can have it both ways. I agree that using shoulder action alone for pace control gets a little vague but only as distance becomes significant. I personally use a claw grip with fairly firm wrists and solely a shoulder rocking action up to about 15 feet. Honestly, it's hard to miss your line with it and distance control is good enough. I'll add a little right hand on the longer ones but not much.

 

[vjsinger]

I think you can have it both ways. I agree that using shoulder action alone for pace control gets a little vague but only as distance becomes significant. I personally use a claw grip with fairly firm wrists and solely a shoulder rocking action up to about 15 feet. Honestly, it's hard to miss your line with it and distance control is good enough. I'll add a little right hand on the longer ones but not much.

Brian taught me it really depends on what you feel comfortable doing and is also dependent on what equipment you decide on. One kind of putter doesn't fit all golf strokes or golfers, it's customized. I may have to change my putter because of this. It's the point Damon was making.... The beauty of not being a method teacher.

 

[Festus]

Brian taught me it really depends on what you feel comfortable doing and is also dependent on what equipment you decide on. One kind of putter doesn't fit all golf strokes or golfers, it's customized. I may have to change my putter because of this. It's the point Damon was making.... The beauty of not being a method teacher.

That's a great equipment point VJ. I'm using an Odyssey 34" 2-ball and it just seems so natural with the claw. My Ping Anser - NOT.

 

[puttmad]

Andrew,

You are obviously a good putter.

Notwithstanding that, you do what 'most' players who have written instructional pieces, books, articles have empirically done, which is draw from the particular to the general.

That is, because you have had success with your method, and because many of the people you have helped have had success, then it is your way or the highway.

So some people don't use their right hand to control the face...Roberts, Faxon, Stricker, Chris Riley....they putt ok...

Some people do ...Tiger, Nicklaus, Floyd....great, they do, and they hit pushes and pulls too.

Pace can be controlled by timing as well as 'feel'...And anyway, would be interested in what exactly you mean by feel.

So there are other ways!

Agreed, there are other ways.
I was mainly clarifying the difference between pace and feel..

Re. Feel.....to me it is something you don't really need to think about as you actually perfom the stroke...it is a reaction to an "instruction" to make the ball go a certain distance...

Now although I earlier stated "it's in the right hand" it isn't. It is simply that you "feel" it in the right hand, It is really in the right shoulder muscle.

For "shoulder" putters it is in the mid and lower back muscles, as they are not using the shoulder muscles...

All I am saying is that my research has indicated more reliability from the shoulder muscle than the mid & lower back muscles.

And I agree re. pace being controilled via timing...that is exactly what I do, as you know, I don't use any feel, apart from that needed to control the timing.

 

[Slicer McGolf]

the high draw feel is from tigers putting coach and its not hank.

aims up to 4 inches right from inside 20 feet and gives it his "rotational release"

 

[twitch127]

the high draw feel is from tigers putting coach and its not hank.

aims up to 4 inches right from inside 20 feet and gives it his "rotational release"

Who is Tigers' putting coach??

I also heard a rumor that the Aussie Coach Dale Lynch has been aligned to take over the toughest/easiest job in golf (depending on your ability)

 

[BurleyGolf]

Listened to Peter Kessler's show on xm the other day and they had an interview with Jim Flick. Flick mentioned that he talked to Tiger about his putting and thoughts while putting.

Tiger mentioned that his sole thought on putting was to imagine he was hitting a high draw or hook using his right hand with his stroke. He felt this produced a better roll on the ball.

Any thoughts from our putting gurus about whether this is legitimate or is Tiger blowing smoke?

For what it's worth people thought that Bobby Locke did hit a draw with his putts.

Tiger is a release putter and aims right of the break line on right to left putts and pulls the ball back on line. If Tiger had any kind of weakness in his putting it would be left to right putts because he tends to play to much break and pulls it on the wrong line. Tiger focuses on controlling the speed and the face with the right elbow, he practices rolling one handed right hand putts with his elbow close to his side. Tiger rolls ths ball pretty decent, but he makes a ton of putts because of green reading. Hands down though he is one of the best putters out there and the best clutch putter since Nicklaus!

 

[benhogan55]

Practising with the right hand only might fit with the OP. However, I think anything that makes the stroke right hand dominant (for the right-handed) may well end in tears for us mere mortals.

Practicing with the right hand only really helps me more in my setup than the stroke itself. I start with right hand only until I make a few good strokes...then put the left hand on the putter...this becomes my preferred setup position.