Off Topic: Learning electric guitar

[SteveT]

^^^ birdie_man .... for most, golf is not a sport, it's only a recreation not to be taken seriously. I figure maybe 1% of the 50 million who can truly play and perform at golf. Most of those on this forum may be in the top 5% of golfers worldwide, i.e. boogie golfers and better.

Golf is the sport of last resort for most because they are non-athletic crud who only want to be told how to get better, but not to learn and work to get better ... and that is the mentality of a child. No wonder equipment manufacturers flog their crap like toys and promise magic results to the hopeless.

These clowns know they can't get better nohow, and just spend wads of money on their toys instead of on lessons which requires 'commitment' ... something non-athletes can't do ... and there are more golffing clowns per acre (hectare) on golf courses than anywhere else in the world.

End of rant ....

 

[birly-shirly]

Met Michael some 30 years ago, and he's mellowed a lot, a lot. I suspect he now realizes he is dealing with childish mentalities in adult bodies trying to blunder through a golfswing. Grown men buying a big set of golf clubs as the first step to becoming a 'golfer' ... and then after blundering for years, either just becoming a good ol' boy or searching for that golf tip grail .... soooo pathetic.

50 million golfers worldwide and 90% can't break 100, honestly. How can you market knowledge to people who only seek 'fun' and want to buy 'power' ... and exercise riding a golf cart ..??!!!!



Ahh ... meta-learning .... you must be a massive mind to be able to think your way to a new and better golfswing.

Btw ... learning to play a musical instrument is a long and painful process because you are learning a new 'language' .. and if you have a unilingual mind you are condemned to a sign language existence .... noises come out and music is lost ... or .... you always slice but always show up on the golf course stage to display your incompetence ...!!!

So you met Michael 30 years ago. Have you read anything that he's written in the last 5 years? I get the impression that he is interested in the "childish mentality" as it relates to learning and playing - but without the derogatory connotations that you seem to attach to the term.

As for meta-learning, I wouldn't claim to have (never mind "be") a massive mind - although I'm smart enough not to think you were complimenting me.

But then, I'm not the one who's equating golf with intellectual capacity - am I?

I would say though that one of the lessons that has been reinforced for me from practicing both music and golf is that practical learning comes from doing, not cogitating.

And what is a "unilingual" mind? Come on, you're just making up BS terminology (again). Anyone could learn a second language if they needed to in order to buy food.

I figure maybe 1% of the 50 million who can truly play and perform at golf. Most of those on this forum may be in the top 5% of golfers worldwide, i.e. boogie golfers and better.

Golf is the sport of last resort for most because they are non-athletic crud who only want to be told how to get better, but not to learn and work to get better ... and that is the mentality of a child. No wonder equipment manufacturers flog their crap like toys and promise magic results to the hopeless.

Interesting. You're not in the 1% that you reckon can truly play and perform. In fact, you've said before that you're struggling to keep your place in the ranks of boogie/bogey golfers. Is the remaining 95% (where you're headed) what you call the "non-athletic crud", or are there some further subdivisions of the golfing population?

 

[wulsy]

I had one teacher who had a fantastic track record with his pupils - but I was never entirely comfortable with his approach to teaching and drifted away. With the benefit of hindsight, I can see what he was doing and I can see the value of it - but it wasn't what I was looking for at the time.

I think this is what Stevie the T-Man means about blundering. Most people can't stand the process of learning cos its just too hard! And it gives them an insight into their true ability, mostly a very disappointing and humility-producing experience. Not nice for anyone, but particularly for folks who want to think of themselves as capable and talented individuals and who are normally in the position to BUY what they need. When a teacher come along who wants to actually TEACH them something they don't like it, and seek out the teachers who market themselves and operate on the same principle as the equipment manufcturers:

Golf is the sport of last resort for most because they are non-athletic crud who only want to be told how to get better, but not to learn and work to get better ... and that is the mentality of a child. No wonder equipment manufacturers flog their crap like toys and promise magic results to the hopeless.

These clowns know they can't get better nohow, and just spend wads of money on their toys instead of on lessons which requires 'commitment' ... something non-athletes can't do ... and there are more golffing clowns per acre (hectare) on golf courses than anywhere else in the world.

End of rant ....

BTW, this is not a criticism Birly buddy. Just an observation of how many "students" react when confronted with trying to do something they can't pull off and which requires the process of LEARNING: they run to the hills! Or as SteveT might say: they run to the Pro Shop with their wallets open And then they hire a buggy, gell Steve?

These guys can play guitar
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa3Oa4t2j4A&feature=channel[/media]

 

[birly-shirly]

I think this is what Stevie the T-Man means about blundering. Most people can't stand the process of learning cos its just too hard! And it gives them an insight into their true ability, mostly a very disappointing and humility-producing experience. Not nice for anyone, but particularly for folks who want to think of themselves as capable and talented individuals and who are normally in the position to BUY what they need. When a teacher come along who wants to actually TEACH them something they don't like it, and seek out the teachers who market themselves and operate on the same principle as the equipment manufcturers:


BTW, this is not a criticism Birly buddy. Just an observation of how many "students" react when confronted with trying to do something they can't pull off and which requires the process of LEARNING: they run to the hills! Or as SteveT might say: they run to the Pro Shop with their wallets open And then they hire a buggy, gell Steve?

These guys can play guitar
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa3Oa4t2j4A&feature=channel[/media]

S'okay Wulsy - no offence taken. On the other hand, what you've described is actually almost the opposite of the situation I was in and the issues I had.

I had spent several years with a teacher who was VERY analytical and demanding and I was very comfortable being challenged by him from week to week, because I knew that I was learning and improving. When I moved to another part of the country to study I had to find a new teacher. I would have been very happy to find more of the same kind of teaching, but ended up taking lessons from a guy who was very talented - but whose style of teaching was much more one of non-verbal demonstration, and playing along. Very intuitive - but not much in the way of explanation.

At that time in my studies, I wanted intellectual justification for everything I was doing and I didn't think that what I was learning from this guy was going to be secure if I couldn't get it into a more mechanical and analytical framework.

This isn't a knock on the teacher. He had a conveyor belt of kids coming through who learned to play to a very high level - but at the time I wanted a bit more rigor and structure in my teaching.

10 years on and I'm beginning to think he was way ahead of his time - but I don't think he could have articulated why at the time, and to be honest, I'd be quite surprised if he could even now.

 

[wulsy]

I understand your point Birly. For sure, some teachers are more suited to some students, and vice versa.

OTOH, a great challenge for a teacher is to work with a student he doesn't like/relate to. And the same can be said for students - try working with a good teacher you don't like/relate to. This can be very productive for both parties, as it often reveals their respective weaknesses.

 

[golfdad]

steveT, what instruments do you play?

 

[Bigwill]

I understand your point Birly. For sure, some teachers are more suited to some students, and vice versa.

OTOH, a great challenge for a teacher is to work with a student he doesn't like/relate to. And the same can be said for students - try working with a good teacher you don't like/relate to. This can be very productive for both parties, as it often reveals their respective weaknesses.

I like this post. To me, a great teacher is not necessarily the most knowledgeable, but is one who is able to effectively convey their knowledge to the student so that the student understands and improves. The scenario you present seems as if it would help the teacher improve in that area.

 

[softconsult]

The last time I played a guitar was on an aircraft carrier in 1967. I wasn't really a guitar player. We were just bored and it was still the folk music era. Here's something that occurred last night.

We are at a small party. I know the homeowner just a bit. He takes a couple of us guys downstairs where he has his guitars and synthesizer keyboard thing. He proceeds to simply cause my chin to drop. Pops in a floppy disk. One song was a church song he composed and wrote about two years ago and hadn't played in two months. It starts. He playing amazing guitar and singing like a pro. Then he switched guitars and did a couple of blues songs. Seemingly with no effort.

He's a Physicians Assistant, 52 years old. Says he thinks about music all day long. I ask him how long he has played Piano. Since he was 6 years old. Guitar? I think he said 11 or 12. How did he get this good? Practice, practice, years and years of practice. Another guy who was listening is a very accomplished wildlife artist. He explained that artists see, and hear things in ways that normal people don't. The musician agreed.

To say I was impressed is an understatement.

 

[self-mastery]

What can members recommend for a game to play against others each day that requires skills and luck with some kind of championship?

Try online poker or a local tournament poker club

Skill + Variance. Short term variance causes bad players to occasionally win big, so they keep on playing. Your job is to feed off the bad players. Every town (even bible belt southern towns) have some sort of tournament poker club.

I paid for my last year of college and subsequent post graduation unemployment with online cash game earnings

 

[birly-shirly]

The last time I played a guitar was on an aircraft carrier in 1967. I wasn't really a guitar player. We were just bored and it was still the folk music era. Here's something that occurred last night.

We are at a small party. I know the homeowner just a bit. He takes a couple of us guys downstairs where he has his guitars and synthesizer keyboard thing. He proceeds to simply cause my chin to drop. Pops in a floppy disk. One song was a church song he composed and wrote about two years ago and hadn't played in two months. It starts. He playing amazing guitar and singing like a pro. Then he switched guitars and did a couple of blues songs. Seemingly with no effort.

He's a Physicians Assistant, 52 years old. Says he thinks about music all day long. I ask him how long he has played Piano. Since he was 6 years old. Guitar? I think he said 11 or 12. How did he get this good? Practice, practice, years and years of practice. Another guy who was listening is a very accomplished wildlife artist. He explained that artists see, and hear things in ways that normal people don't. The musician agreed.

To say I was impressed is an understatement.

That's cool. Did you share with your friends that a significant part of the golfing population seems to think that the answer to their prayers might lie in a book, or a video, or even a series of lessons, and not require that sort of investment of practice?

I love that Tommy Armour line - that most golfers will never work as hard at their game as they'll hope at it.

 

[jpeck]

Thanks for the advice, comments, and stories. I've learnt a few chords and a couple of finger exercises. It's a great hobby, just hope I'm not blundering too much.

 

[Matt 4-L]

Thanks for the advice, comments, and stories. I've learnt a few chords and a couple of finger exercises. It's a great hobby, just hope I'm not blundering too much.

I play acoustic guitar and have found justinguitar.com very helpful.

 

[jpeck]

I play acoustic guitar and have found justinguitar.com very helpful.

Agreed! Justin's my main man, so to speak. He has one of the best sites on the web to learn guitar.

 

[birdie_man]

I paid for my last year of college and subsequent post graduation unemployment with online cash game earnings

Haha nice. You would.

 

[rmartingolf]

First I hope you haven't purchased the electric because you should start on acoustic. The reason being is that you want to develop your technique. Electric is essentially the same instrument but you dont just learn to play guitar on an electric. It's one of those that's just not done. For sure its easier to fret the instrument but easier is not better as a beginner. Most accomplished teachers will scoff. Acoustic is tougher because it requires more precise fingering skills. Very much like blades vs game improvement clubs.

If I have a promising junior player over the age of 12 I want them in blades if they sre strong enough to swing them. Im not convinced that light clubs are always the best way to learn. There are a lot of great golfers that learn with cut-down clubs. I'm not saying that all youngsters should use US kids. In my experience kids that learned with heavier clubs have better pivots because they have to recruit their lower body to swing the club but that's a different discussion. Kids don't necessarily need equipment that makes it easier to hit it all over the clubface, they need equipment that will expose their flaws. Guitar is the same way.
You're also more likely to practice because you dont have to set up all the gear. Just pick it up and go. You will also develop your ear quicker on acoustic because the fingering must be more precise. In addition you learn to develop and control volume and tone.

Learning an instrument and learning to play golf are very very similar. Someone mentioned using a metronome. I would absoloutly recommend getting one. Just like in putting, timing and rythem are key. Scales and drills are important for sure, but you also need to find some tabs of tunes that are familiar and fundamentally simple so you can stay motivated to play.

Good luck!

ram

 

[Garth]

I've played for over 20 years now and am totally self taught. To me the biggest thing is to keep it fun! Grab those scales and chord books and learn them, but just use them as a sort of warm up exercise. Learn how to read tab and then just learn a few licks of your favorite songs here and there. Those are the fun things to play. If you just stick to scales and chords, you'll get bored to death in 6 months and probably never play again. I've seen it happen to 100's of people. I've always looked at guitar as "plateaus". You'll see a lot of improvement, then flat line for awhile, then make another jump, then level out again. The toughest thing to do is stick with it for the 1st year or so. Once you start being able to play whole songs that you love, it's tough to put it down!