GROOVES and SPIN

[wulsy]

Anyone know how much worn grooves affect spin?

My PW is well worn on the SWEETSPOT and the ball has started to fly a tad strange from tme to time. Is this because of the worn grooves?

 

[johnnymarlboro]

Yup. Found this test from Golf Magazine.

Wedges with old grooves provide less spin on pitch shots - Equipment - Golf.com

 

[wulsy]

thanks bud, question answered! so that's why i was launchin it so crazy high!

 

[mgranato]

Wedges should be treated like gloves and balls.... Disposable equipment.

 

[wulsy]

Yup, especially if practice on a range where the range balls are non-balls and the grass a mixture of grass and sand. Keep those new Miuras in the trunk and use your old clubs.

 

[birly-shirly]

Has anyone seen (or done) any analysis of the effects of the change in rules on grooves?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Has anyone seen (or done) any analysis of the effects of the change in rules on grooves?

in regards to what?

 

[faux_maestro]

in regards to what?

I think he means how much did the rule change effect spin rates on iron/wedge shots. If I'm not mistaken it didn't make a whole lot of difference but I don't have hard data on that. In fact I think it may have been a benefit to the best players, less chance of over spinning wedges from the fairway. Did the USGA/R&A do some investigation on this topic?

 

[drewyallop]

The groove - spin question has always puzzled me. Specifically, why worn (or no) grooves produce less spin. Anyone know?

 

[johnnymarlboro]

The groove - spin question has always puzzled me. Specifically, why worn (or no) grooves produce less spin. Anyone know?

I believe it's just as simple as less friction applied to the ball hence less spin. The worn grooves are more rounded on the edges, so there's less to bite onto the soft surface of the golf ball.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

#1 thing that determines spin is face roughness, not grooves. You could build a sandpaper like finish on a no groove wedge and spin the hell out of it from a tight fairway lie. Grooves are there to move debris, water and help spin the ball because you can't get clean contact. There is actually a face roughness measurement that wedges must pass it's the reason why that one insert on the diamond wedge is illegal.

 

[wulsy]

But the sliding up the face causing higher launch angle thing would still apply I'd assume.

 

[birly-shirly]

in regards to what?

in regards to playing/performance statistics.

wasn't the rule change based in part on an expectation that "smaller" grooves would force the use of a spinnier ball which would result in shorter drives and other good things? or alternatively that a lack of control from the rough would force a more conservative style of play to evolve?

just asking really - did anything change on tour as a result of the new wedges?

 

[Lindsey Newman]

But the sliding up the face causing higher launch angle thing would still apply I'd assume.

First thing I noticed last year when I went to CC vokey's was the higher launch.

 

[BIGBALL]

I actually remember some wedges out ther years ago that had a black sandpaper tight finish! I actually used one for a round...it definitely spun, but shredded the golf ball. And I think Carbite? may have had one with a bumpy surface of some sort...

 

[birly-shirly]

Surely the face of a chromed forged wedge that is heavily worn is going to be rougher than a brand new square grooved wedge.

In which case the new wedge would have all the advantage out of long grass - but the old wedge would spin more from a clean lie?

 

[hp12c]

Anyone know how much worn grooves affect spin?

My PW is well worn on the SWEETSPOT and the ball has started to fly a tad strange from tme to time. Is this because of the worn grooves?

In its testing, the USGA evaluated grooveless irons, as well as clubs with traditional V-grooves and U-grooves at the current USGA limits. Its testing also involved both wound balata-like balls and modern multilayer, urethane-covered balls, specifically the Titleist Pro V1. Out of the rough, the report states, "the V-groove is only a modest improvement over no grooves at all, whereas the U-groove offers a substantial improvement over both the grooveless and the V-groove clubs."

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

In its testing, the USGA evaluated grooveless irons, as well as clubs with traditional V-grooves and U-grooves at the current USGA limits. Its testing also involved both wound balata-like balls and modern multilayer, urethane-covered balls, specifically the Titleist Pro V1. Out of the rough, the report states, "the V-groove is only a modest improvement over no grooves at all, whereas the U-groove offers a substantial improvement over both the grooveless and the V-groove clubs."

 

[faux_maestro]

In its testing, the USGA evaluated grooveless irons, as well as clubs with traditional V-grooves and U-grooves at the current USGA limits. Its testing also involved both wound balata-like balls and modern multilayer, urethane-covered balls, specifically the Titleist Pro V1. Out of the rough, the report states, "the V-groove is only a modest improvement over no grooves at all, whereas the U-groove offers a substantial improvement over both the grooveless and the V-groove clubs."

Thanks for the info.

 

[faux_maestro]

First thing I noticed last year when I went to CC vokey's was the higher launch.

I thought I heard an interview with Vokey himself where he stated they played around with weight distribution to try to mess with launch angle, basically they wanted higher launch to make up for the reduced spin. I'll try to find it.