What I Learned in Manorville

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I was fortunate enough to be a part of Brian and Mikes golf school this weekend.. The following is a stream of consciousness from 30,000 feet on my away back to Chicago.

- 12 sensor motion capture is ridiculously impressive. The breadth of coverage is astounding; there is quantified values for so many aspects of golf swing related movement. I am inspired to purchase a k vest. I plan on treating students movement as I do their impact with Flightscope; no more guessing (I'll have more on that).

-sequence, Ipsi stretch, back extension, and so much more

Biggest nuggets for me from the 3D ... I had the spine figured wrong... I was under the impression that for the sake of being "centered" ( every time I said that word mike appeared a little nauceous) the golfer must add in side bend AND a decent amount of back extension . Without these elements the golfer would surely have that dreaded overly rightward lean at the top with full retention of forward bend. 4 deg. Maximum back extension value for the top of swing. 4 f'n degrees. Wowee. Back to the drawing board on that one. Basically how I'm looking at spine/ centering stuff is that you should take your forward bend value of an orthodox setup , side bend that amount, dont sway/ overturn, and you've got a pretty good feel for backswing torso movement.

Easily the most interesting part (from a teachers perspective ) of the weekend was an unnamed students diagnosis from Brian and mike. Let's call this gentlemen Pete. Pete had a long swing and for a big piece of meat didn't hit it very far.. Brian had first crack at him.. Poor grip, hip spin, lack of late trail bend (I'm going to stop saying axis tilt, starting now; doesn't seem to make sense anymore ) I regress, Brian and TM do there thing.. Candy Cane hips, heel pad, and some extra sprinkles. Great lesson, and TM verifies it. Pete goes to 3D...grossly over pivoting (Brian had tightened it in some as well), 118 degrees of thorax rotation , and plus 10 back extension. Okay so now we've got the whole picture. Pete could go play great with his TM session, but now he really knows why he can't stop his swing from going astray more often than he would like. His over pivot was getting one number to jump of the screen.. Ipsi directional stretch time . This value measures total and duration of shoulder stretch when the the lead arm and thorax are moving in the same direction on the downswing. Pete's duration of Ipsi stretch was LONG. You see what's happening. Pete was substituting turn with back extension, had a mile to the ball and was having to arm drag for days.. As mike pointed out this was a long dainty swing.. Not utlilizing stretch - shortening , no decel, etc. Mike and Brian got on the same page had a duel with session with Pete, and he received one of the most comprehensive lessons you could ever imagine. He has a long term goal to understand how is pivot has to work, as well as some easy to digest pieces to get his d plane tidy. He got better that day and the improvement will sustain itself.

I've got more if people want to hear.. For now my iPad is out of juice and we're about to land.
 
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ZAP

New
Man that sounds like a good time. Adding a Brian/Jacobs golf school to my bucket list right now.
 
Man that sounds like a good time. Adding a Brian/Jacobs golf school to my bucket list right now.

Ditto. It's one thing to have someone look at your swing on video, or even do a cursory once-over in person. But having access to this kind of diagnostic equipment, as well as people who can interpret the data and use it to give you practical, customized instruction, seems like it would go a long way toward helping golfers improve a lot more quickly and with less detours than they would have otherwise.

Looking forward to hearing more, richardf.
 
"Ipsi" means the same. The directional stretch phase re: the pelvis and thorax moving in the same direction and turning in the downswing.
 
At the "X Factor: or "contra" stretch the thorax and pelvis are moving in opposite directions until the "Ipsi" where they go "same".
 
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hp12c

New
Nice! yes I agree keep the info coming, some video demo/amser would be like icing on the cake!
 

djd

New
I was fortunate enough to be a part of Brian and Mikes golf school this weekend.. The following is a stream of consciousness from 30,000 feet on my away back to Chicago.

- 12 sensor motion capture is ridiculously impressive. The breadth of coverage is astounding; there is quantified values for so many aspects of golf swing related movement. I am inspired to purchase a k vest. I plan on treating students movement as I do their impact with Flightscope; no more guessing (I'll have more on that).

-sequence, Ipsi stretch, back extension, and so much more

Biggest nuggets for me from the 3D ... I had the spine figured wrong... I was under the impression that for the sake of being "centered" ( every time I said that word mike appeared a little nauceous) the golfer must add in side bend AND a decent amount of back extension . Without these elements the golfer would surely have that dreaded overly rightward lean at the top with full retention of forward bend. 4 deg. Maximum back extension value for the top of swing. 4 f'n degrees. Wowee. Back to the drawing board on that one. Basically how I'm looking at spine/ centering stuff is that you should take your forward bend value of an orthodox setup , side bend that amount, dont sway/ overturn, and you've got a pretty good feel for backswing torso movement.

Easily the most interesting part (from a teachers perspective ) of the weekend was an unnamed students diagnosis from Brian and mike. Let's call this gentlemen Pete. Pete had a long swing and for a big piece of meat didn't hit it very far.. Brian had first crack at him.. Poor grip, hip spin, lack of late trail bend (I'm going to stop saying axis tilt, starting now; doesn't seem to make sense anymore ) I regress, Brian and TM do there thing.. Candy Cane hips, heel pad, and some extra sprinkles. Great lesson, and TM verifies it. Pete goes to 3D...grossly over pivoting (Brian had tightened it in some as well), 118 degrees of thorax rotation , and plus 10 back extension. Okay so now we've got the whole picture. Pete could go play great with his TM session, but now he really knows why he can't stop his swing from going astray more often than he would like. His over pivot was getting one number to jump of the screen.. Ipsi directional stretch time . This value measures total and duration of shoulder stretch when the the lead arm and thorax are moving in the same direction on the downswing. Pete's duration of Ipsi stretch was LONG. You see what's happening. Pete was substituting turn with back extension, had a mile to the ball and was having to arm drag for days.. As mike pointed out this was a long dainty swing.. Not utlilizing stretch - shortening , no decel, etc. Mike and Brian got on the same page had a duel with session with Pete, and he received one of the most comprehensive lessons you could ever imagine. He has a long term goal to understand how is pivot has to work, as well as some easy to digest pieces to get his d plane tidy. He got better that day and the improvement will sustain itself.

I've got more if people want to hear.. For now my iPad is out of juice and we're about to land.

richardf- can we hear some more?
 

lia41985

New member
I had the spine figured wrong... I was under the impression that for the sake of being "centered" ( every time I said that word mike appeared a little nauceous) the golfer must add in side bend AND a decent amount of back extension . Without these elements the golfer would surely have that dreaded overly rightward lean at the top with full retention of forward bend. 4 deg. Maximum back extension value for the top of swing. 4 f'n degrees. Wowee. Back to the drawing board on that one. Basically how I'm looking at spine/ centering stuff is that you should take your forward bend value of an orthodox setup , side bend that amount, dont sway/ overturn, and you've got a pretty good feel for backswing torso movement... Pete goes to 3D...grossly over pivoting (Brian had tightened it in some as well), 118 degrees of thorax rotation , and plus 10 back extension.
Richard,
How is this measurement calculated? 4 degrees ("plus 10 degrees") NET back extension or GROSS back extension?
 

lia41985

New member
The student had 10 Deg. GROSS; a net of 10 + F. BEND he had at address
Thank you for your time. I'm sorry but I am still uncertain. Perhaps an example would help.

Say the student had +40 degrees of forward bend at address...at the top of his backswing would the reading be +30 degrees or -10 degrees or...?

I am using the negative numbers because I have this notion that perhaps the measurement units may be indicative of "past neutral (lumbar) spine" extension.

I'd appreciate any assistance you may offer. Thank you.
 
nice report Richard.

back extension during backswing sort of means raising the head as well right? how does he fix this? quite hard to fix...
 
Unfortunately this discussion, which could be really interesting, is pretty pointless because of the failure to define anything.
 

natep

New
It seems pretty clear to me.

[edit] Err, maybe not. But seems like 10 degrees of extension relative to his address posture.
 
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lia41985

New member
Unfortunately this discussion, which could be really interesting, is pretty pointless because of the failure to define anything.
Have patience, brother. That's why I asked questions. If you have some, which it seems you do, why not ask instead of expressing such dejection?
It seems pretty clear to me.

[edit] Err, maybe not. But seems like 10 degrees of extension relative to his address posture.
That's my guess, too. But it's only a guess.
 
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