Secondary Axis Tilt and Fat Shots

[Pete J]

Will adding axis tilt in the downswing predispose you to hit your irons fat? If so, should you make an attempt to keep your shoulders more level through impact?

 

[ms1170]

Keeping your shoulders level and adding axis tilt are opposite things. Axis tilt makes the shoulders steeper. More turn might be needed if you're hitting it fat.

 

[Pete J]

Keeping your shoulders level and adding axis tilt are opposite things. Axis tilt makes the shoulders steeper. More turn might be needed if you're hitting it fat.

That's what I was asking. Should you strive for more axis tilt or should you try to keep your shoulders more level? If the former, are you saying you need a stronger/faster pivot so you don't reach low point too soon?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

As you introduce axis tilt people over do it OR they are only dropping their right shoulder to go it. You have to remember that the right shoulder goes down AND out while the left shoulder goes up AND in.

If the right shoulder is really only going down and not out enough, fat city.

 

[SteveT]

Fat shots can be caused by "blocking"... or stalling hip and then shoulder rotation. This feeds the kinetic energy prematurely to the club and the arm and club straighten out too quickly in the backswing.... ergo your clubhead path hits the planet before the lil' white ball.

 

[ms1170]

That's what I was asking. Should you strive for more axis tilt or should you try to keep your shoulders more level? If the former, are you saying you need a stronger/faster pivot so you don't reach low point too soon?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Also, if you look at almost any great player, their shoulders appear very steep at impact.

 

[Pete J]

As you introduce axis tilt people over do it OR they are only dropping their right shoulder to go it. You have to remember that the right shoulder goes down AND out while the left shoulder goes up AND in.

If the right shoulder is really only going down and not out enough, fat city.

Jim,
I think that is the key. The right shoulder must go out which also helps maintain the correct spine inclination to the ground. If not, the spine inclination decreases and as you say, "fat city". How does this all relate to pulling the club out of the ground?


PJ

 

[globus]

As you introduce axis tilt people over do it OR they are only dropping their right shoulder to go it. You have to remember that the right shoulder goes down AND out while the left shoulder goes up AND in.

If the right shoulder is really only going down and not out enough, fat city.

When you say the right shoulder goes down and out do you mean out as further or closer to the target line? Thanks.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Jim,
I think that is the key. The right shoulder must go out which also helps maintain the correct spine inclination to the ground. If not, the spine inclination decreases and as you say, "fat city". How does this all relate to pulling the club out of the ground

PJ

Pulling the club out of the ground is a feel; during the transition as you "squat" and develop axis tilt as you keep rotating the left shoulder works up and to the left giving the feel of "pulling" back up out of the ground. Hope that helps

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

When you say the right shoulder goes down and out do you mean out as further or closer to the target line? Thanks.

In/out inrelation to the ball; you make a backswing and the right shoulder goes "in" from the ball. As you un-wind no matter what you do the right shoulder will go back out towards the ball BUT a lot of people who try to achieve a bunch of tilt don't get the right shoulder out enough and simply keep going down at too steep of an angle and they never un-wind enough to not swing too far right, hit big fat shots, etc.

 

[Pete J]

As you introduce axis tilt people over do it OR they are only dropping their right shoulder to go it. You have to remember that the right shoulder goes down AND out while the left shoulder goes up AND in.

If the right shoulder is really only going down and not out enough, fat city.

The right shoulder goes down and out in the DS. Is this essentially the precursor to "swinging left"? Why do some pros like T. Gainey and D. Johnson have so much more secondary axis tilt than other pros? What does it provide for them?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

The right shoulder goes down and out in the DS. Is this essentially the precursor to "swinging left"? Why do some pros like T. Gainey and D. Johnson have so much more secondary axis tilt than other pros? What does it provide for them?

Just a guess here but both have effectively more closed clubfaces than what many would consider "neutral." D. Johson has that arched wrist and T. Gainey plays with super strong grip (both left/right hands). The only way to not hook it a lot with either of those, generally, is to get a lot of delay or "lag look." Basically you are trying to delay the crap out of the clubface from closing too quickly so you don't hook it (too much).

One way to get a lot of delay is with a lot of axis tilt and a steeper downswing shoulder turn. Hope that helps.

 

[Pete J]

Just a guess here but both have effectively more closed clubfaces than what many would consider "neutral." D. Johson has that arched wrist and T. Gainey plays with super strong grip (both left/right hands). The only way to not hook it a lot with either of those, generally, is to get a lot of delay or "lag look." Basically you are trying to delay the crap out of the clubface from closing too quickly so you don't hook it (too much).

One way to get a lot of delay is with a lot of axis tilt and a steeper downswing shoulder turn. Hope that helps.

Jim........sorry but I'm having a hard time visualizing this. Isn't adding axis tilt a way of swallowing the swing path?

 

[art]

Fat shots can be caused by "blocking"... or stalling hip and then shoulder rotation. This feeds the kinetic energy prematurely to the club and the arm and club straighten out too quickly in the backswing.... ergo your clubhead path hits the planet before the lil' white ball.

Steve,

Welcome back, I hope your 'blog' vacation was non-medical, and allowed you to continue to monitor these going's on. A PM would be appreciated when time permits.

Best regards,
art

 

[art]

Will adding axis tilt in the downswing predispose you to hit your irons fat? If so, should you make an attempt to keep your shoulders more level through impact?

Dear Pete J,

There are a lot of ways to hit the ground pre-maturely, as you have read in respones prior to this, so I have a FAVOR and an ANSWER.

The FAVOR first. Could you have a FRIEND describe to you in excruciating detail, what is your LEAD foot, and lower leg doing during the BACK SWING, TRANSITION, DOWNSWING, and FOLLOW-THRU.

The ANSWER is that you are losing your lower body dynamic balance, and I will explain the details after I can see a previously posted video, or if you wish, a video to me thru a PM.

Sincerely,
art

 

[hp12c]

Pulling the club out of the ground is a feel; during the transition as you "squat" and develop axis tilt as you keep rotating the left shoulder works up and to the left giving the feel of "pulling" back up out of the ground. Hope that helps

Good stuff Jim.