Jamie Sadlowski Pelvis and Torso Speeds from 3D capture

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Brian Manzella

Administrator
My good pal Steve Atherton, the VP in charge of Golf Instruction for GolfTec, did an article for Golf Magazine in November of 2010 on Jamie Sadlowski's swing.

I asked him about the 3D data for Jamie's swing, and here is Steve message to me:


"...from what I have, at roughly club parallel to the ground on the downswing (delivery position), and slightly prior to that (maybe hands at shoulder high) his hips were turning about 660 degrees per second. At impact, they were turning 210 degrees per second, and one frame after impact 120 degrees per second. They never recoiled or went backwards like Rory, they simply fired really fast, then slowed down to almost a standstill within a frame or two after impact, then sped back up.​

The torso, which falls in line with almost every good ball striker we had on our system, was almost exactly double those amounts in each position, so the shoulders mid-downswing were turning 1320 degrees per second as they caught up to the hips, which were turned just slightly more than half of the shoulders at the top of the swing 59/110. Then just after impact the shoulders slowed to 400 degrees per second. The shoulders and hips were almost identical in amount of rotation 2 frames after impact (60 fps camera). "​
 
But it looks so fast on video!!!! :). They'll now claim your information is bad and you have an agenda (but they don't of course). They've been told of the weaknesses/differences of 2D video compared to 3D systems in examining pelvis rotation speed and that still doesn't help. Next they'll come up with a new definition/calculation of face angle!
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
There have always been folks who thought that there was no way the hips should be moving slower at impact rotationally, then they were pre-impact.

We have been saying for years now that: "You can not make a high level powerful swing—tour caliber or not, long drive champion or not—without pelvis deceleration."
I have been personally teaching folks in the TrackMan era by "giving them the business" — my right hand under their right tush and somewhat on the side of their right leg, my left on their left ribcage, thrusting their pelvis forward and upward with my right hand, while my left hand rotates the ribcage while it assists the tilts of the pelvis and the torso.

I am very confident, and have been for quite some time, that we are the correct side of this debate.

But, one of my undeniable truths of the golf teaching biz is any swing that works on one golfer really well, will work on multiple golfers if taught to them the same way. If that weren't true, there would be a method teacher in the world who could afford to eat at Taco Bell.

And if the method is the thought of a free spin of the hips through impact (which never actually happens, see above), it is usually accompanied with a strong left hand grip, more or less requiring the golfer to be so open pelvis-wise at impact, that the hips simply can't do what they are trying to do.
 
Ultra-Strong Grips

And if the method is the thought of a free spin of the hips through impact (which never actually happens, see above), it is usually accompanied with a strong left hand grip, more or less requiring the golfer to be so open pelvis-wise at impact, that the hips simply can't do what they are trying to do.

Brian,

If I understand you correctly, your position is that there is no such thing as one "optimal" method that everyone should try to emulate. Instead, customization is the name of the game.

That said, there some grips are so extremely weak that they are sub-optimal. Ditto for extremely strong grips.

So in general, is there a range of acceptable grips and the golfer should just make sure that he is not outside that range of acceptability?

Is left-hand grip strength generally more important than right-hand grip strength?
 

bcoak

New
There have always been folks who thought that there was no way the hips should be moving slower at impact rotationally, then they were pre-impact.

We have been saying for years now that: "You can not make a high level powerful swing—tour caliber or not, long drive champion or not—without pelvis deceleration."
I have been personally teaching folks in the TrackMan era by "giving them the business" — my right hand under their right tush and somewhat on the side of their right leg, my left on their left ribcage, thrusting their pelvis forward and upward with my right hand, while my left hand rotates the ribcage while it assists the tilts of the pelvis and the torso.

I am very confident, and have been for quite some time, that we are the correct side of this debate.

But, one of my undeniable truths of the golf teaching biz is any swing that works on one golfer really well, will work on multiple golfers if taught to them the same way. If that weren't true, there would be a method teacher in the world who could afford to eat at Taco Bell.

And if the method is the thought of a free spin of the hips through impact (which never actually happens, see above), it is usually accompanied with a strong left hand grip, more or less requiring the golfer to be so open pelvis-wise at impact, that the hips simply can't do what they are trying to do.

Video of the business?
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Brian,

If I understand you correctly, your position is that there is no such thing as one "optimal" method that everyone should try to emulate. Instead, customization is the name of the game.

That said, there some grips are so extremely weak that they are sub-optimal. Ditto for extremely strong grips.

So in general, is there a range of acceptable grips and the golfer should just make sure that he is not outside that range of acceptability?

Is left-hand grip strength generally more important than right-hand grip strength?

On the tour, there are a lot of neutral low hand, stronger than average top hand grips. You won't see that many strong low hands.
 
This was the foundation of Dr. Feddler Von Schtickle, The World's Foremost Authority.

notes from checklist #15624

Left Hand Grip 45 degrees Pre-pronated at P-1.

Massive Hip Accelertion from P-4 to P-9

But at the time of this last recording the left hand grip appears in a less pronated position.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4oewQPhbJew" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oewQPhbJew&feature=player_embedded

LINK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oewQPhbJew
 
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