Are these straight plane lines?

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shortgamer

shortgamer

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First of all these are Dorns images and I hope he doesn't mind that I used them but I'm trying to learn something. Now, I thought tracing a straight plane line meant the handle or clubhead end always traced the target line except when parallel of each other but then I see pictures like this:
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Could they be dropping down towards the elbow plane and then tracing the line from there?
 
E

exgolfpro66

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I really have no business responding to this, but I will anyway. First of all, tracing the plane line isn't the only way to play this game. I really doubt Furyk cares much about TGM and what they (we?) think. But, in my limited understanding of tracing the plane line, I always thought it was traced coming into impact, not so much from the top of the backswing.

Plus, I would bet that if you looked at these guys closer to impact, they would have the club and right forearm on plane. Seems to me it would be diffucult and not quite correct if their entire swing were on the elbow plane.

Now, hopefully someone who knows better will chime in.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
The only place tracing a straight plane line "really matters" is roughly hip high to hip high.

now the more you can trace the rest of the swing, the easier it will be. but brian's right, you really can't tell with video parallax.
 
cmartingolf

cmartingolf

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video set up

47,

When I'm using a lot of video I've found a mat helpful. That way your divots don't dictate moving the camera around much.

One of my buddies, who helps many Tour players always sets a camera on the target line. That his preferred view.

I like to set a club flat on the ground aiming at the target an inch ahead of the ball. Leave the club on the ground and set a club in the play position behind the ball (if you are alone, lean it against your bag or whatever can hold it up!) aiming down target line (the face is aiming on the line of the club on the ground).
With a camera about 36 inches off the ground (waist high), position the camera so it is looking down the target line but position it so that the club in the play position is parallel to the club on the ground. Play around with it a bit and you'll see what I mean.

At least you'll have a consistent camera angle to draw your lines, etc...

BM may prefer a different setting?
 
Michael Finney

Michael Finney

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unfortunately, there is NO way to avoid parallax......you can't capture a 3D image on a 2D video screen without distortion.....brian's video on this will open a lot of eyes....

tom ness wrote an article about this for golf digest about two years ago and they (GD) canned it......guess why?.....then they will be admitting all of their swing sequences and videos are misleading to the golfing public...they would never admit to that....

the 3D motion capture units are getting closer to solving this parallax problem, but the engineers and the golf pros helping the engineers are not savvy enough to measure the right things just yet....not to mention these systems still cost $20,000 - $100,000......

we're getting closer to the truth, though.......as my 1966 world book encyclopedia told me as i was growing up in the late 70s..."someday we may travel to the moon"....hmmm....

"someday rob akins and hank haney will figure out their "parallel planes" theory is G-A-R-B-A-G-E...."
 
4

47range

New
Camera Placement

There is a point where there is a small amount of distortion when using video. The further away from a person the camera is...the less distortion. The closer the camera is....the more distortion.
 
EdStraker

EdStraker

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When video is used, the camera has to be in the right position, if it isn't you might think a certain aspect of your swing is wrong when it isn't.

I forget the name of the pro, but back in the 30s or 40s, this pro saw pics of his swing and was horrified by what he saw. The problem was the camera was at the wrong angle and distorted the look of the swing. He changed his swing on the misconception he formed based on pics taken at the wrong angle and his swing was never the same again.
 
shortgamer

shortgamer

New
I don't know how to take stills from either swingpractis or the V1 swing software of the stuff I was playing with but if I traced a line from behind the ball through it and on out towards the target the shaft lines did intersect the straight plane line but it wasn't perfect as for instance when on the downswing when the left arm was parallel(to the ground) the club should be pointing behind the ball but with the lines drawn down the shaft plane it intersected the directional plane line AHEAD of the ball. So I thought I was on to something but now I'm confused again.
 
R

Ringer

New
Parallax - Suppliers of the BASIC stamp microcontroller and related components.

Just kidding. :D

Wikipedia - Parallax is the change of angular position of two stationary points relative to each other as seen by an observer, caused by the motion of an observer. Simply put, it is the apparent shift of an object against a background caused by a change in observer position.
 
Dana Dahlquist

Dana Dahlquist

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exgolfpro66 said:
I really have no business responding to this, but I will anyway. First of all, tracing the plane line isn't the only way to play this game. I really doubt Furyk cares much about TGM and what they (we?) think. But, in my limited understanding of tracing the plane line, I always thought it was traced coming into impact, not so much from the top of the backswing.

Plus, I would bet that if you looked at these guys closer to impact, they would have the club and right forearm on plane. Seems to me it would be diffucult and not quite correct if their entire swing were on the elbow plane.

Now, hopefully someone who knows better will chime in.
Click to expand...

I would say you had that very right.
 
vjcapron

vjcapron

New
Michael Finney said:
"someday rob akins and hank haney will figure out their "parallel planes" theory is G-A-R-B-A-G-E...."
Click to expand...

Here's some food for thought.

Is it really garbage, or is this a valid way to analyze a golf swing for "correctness" through 2 dimensional video analysis, due to parallax?

What I hear you saying is that if you took a Ben Hogan, Tiger Woods, David Toms, or Mark O'meara swing sequence in 2-D, where the shaft is pointing outside of the target line, and, if you could somehow superimpose that same exact swing in a 3-D analyzer, or somehow magically put a laser pointer on the butt end of their club, that these players would be proven to really be tracing a straight plane line.

Well, if that's the case, and video is your only tool to analyze your golf swing, then you have to concede that the parallel planes theory is valid at least when looking at 2-D swing sequence.
 
mjstrong

mjstrong

New
elaborate?

vjcapron said:
Here's some food for thought.
if you could somehow superimpose that same exact swing in a 3-D analyzer, or somehow magically put a laser pointer on the butt end of their club, that these players would be proven to really be tracing a straight plane line.

Well, if that's the case, and video is your only tool to analyze your golf swing, then you have to concede that the parallel planes theory is valid at least when looking at 2-D swing sequence.
Click to expand...

Forgive me, but I don't see how the first statement leads to a concession of the second. Tracing a straight plane line does not necessarily equate to using the parallel planes theory. That doesn't mean your argument is wrong, but I think it incomplete...

Mark
 
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