Rolling the Rock ?

[mclare]

Brian,

I just read your 2004 'Rolling the Rock' article. What is the best way to strike the ball slightly above the balls equator with a forward leaning club? Is it easier to start in this position at address or pull inward with arms (to raise putter height) and create lag in right wrist (to create forward leaning shaft)? I really putt well when I practice starting above the quarters, but didn't know which approach is more consistent or effective under pressure.

 

[Damon Lucas]

McClare,

What is the attraction of a forward leaning shaft in putting?

The most effective idea in pressure situations, or non pressure situations, is to have the simplest biomechanical approach possible. Thus, have the ball positioned slightly ahead of the bottom of your stroke arc(maybe 2 inches), and putt with a relaxed shoulders oriented stroke.

Hope this helps!

 

[mclare]

McClare,

What is the attraction of a forward leaning shaft in putting?

The most effective idea in pressure situations, or non pressure situations, is to have the simplest biomechanical approach possible. Thus, have the ball positioned slightly ahead of the bottom of your stroke arc(maybe 2 inches), and putt with a relaxed shoulders oriented stroke.

Hope this helps!

The forward leaning shaft was a recommendation of Brian's in his article 'Rolling the Rock', as well as a key in other putting instructors like Utley. My underrstanding is that you desire a forward leaning shaft to emphasize the slightly descending hit above the equater of the ball to produce the purest roll.

Damon, I am very surprise you advocate a ball position 2" ahead of the bottom of the arc. This will promote hitting the ball on the upswing! Also, what does 'a relaxed shoulder oriented stroke' mean?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

It also depends on the loft of your putter. Putters with more than 3-4* of loft are best for a slightly downward strike. Putters with loft in the 0-2* are better for a more level or slightly upswing type of strike.

 

[Damon Lucas]

Hi McLare,

Jim summed it up pretty well!
My 'preference' is for putters in the 1 to 2 degree range.
Yes, I do prefer a slightly ascending stroke. Due to the ball position being where it is, I don't have to try to achieve this. It happens as a natural course of action, if I allow the stroke to happen.
Why don't I like a descending blow?

1. Necessity?
2. either pre setting your wrists or forward pressing or stroke manipulation to achieve a descending blow requires a manipulation/grooving of either the hands or wrists or forearms or elbows or shoulder sockets.
3.The actions in 2. detract from other aspects of putting like your stroke tempo of your ability to hit the putt on the intended line.

By the way, 2 inches is a miniscule amount in the radius of a normal putting stroke. 1/10th of an inch and you wouldn't consciously be able to tell the difference.

Also, if you putt well, that is great! Problem is, what feels good for you might not be optimal for others, and this is where we as instructors have to look at the science, test all the theories(even from as massive an authority as Utley!), and try to understand whether that is what we should recommend to golfers.

Good golfing!

 

[bcoak]

Damon
Do you have a 2 inch space between bottom and ball? Do you fix your gaze at this gap?

 

[Damon Lucas]

More like 1 inch!

I don't actually fix my gaze. I like a soft focus on the area between the sweetspot and the contact point.

Cheers,
Damon

 

[mclare]

Hi McLare,

Jim summed it up pretty well!
My 'preference' is for putters in the 1 to 2 degree range.
Yes, I do prefer a slightly ascending stroke. Due to the ball position being where it is, I don't have to try to achieve this. It happens as a natural course of action, if I allow the stroke to happen.
Why don't I like a descending blow?

1. Necessity?
2. either pre setting your wrists or forward pressing or stroke manipulation to achieve a descending blow requires a manipulation/grooving of either the hands or wrists or forearms or elbows or shoulder sockets.
3.The actions in 2. detract from other aspects of putting like your stroke tempo of your ability to hit the putt on the intended line.

By the way, 2 inches is a miniscule amount in the radius of a normal putting stroke. 1/10th of an inch and you wouldn't consciously be able to tell the difference.

Also, if you putt well, that is great! Problem is, what feels good for you might not be optimal for others, and this is where we as instructors have to look at the science, test all the theories(even from as massive an authority as Utley!), and try to understand whether that is what we should recommend to golfers.

Good golfing!

What part of the ball do you contact and with what part of the clubface? 2" seems like quite a bit beyond the bottom of the arc to hit the ball on the upswing? Either your ball hops quite a bit, your greens must be quite hairy or you flatten the arc.

 

[birdie_man]

Brian haven't you changed your preferences (re: ascending/descending) since all of this "new stuff?" (mandrin stuff)

 

[Damon Lucas]

McLare,

Actually, 2 inches is not much. I could put a ball 6 inches ahead of the bottom of my stroke(located beneath my sternum), and still hit it. I try to hit the ball very close to the equator but just below on an ascending arc, with a putter that has about 2.5 to 3 degrees of dynamic loft. For that, I have had my putter built at 2 degrees of loft, and due to the ball position that becomes 2.5 to 3 degrees at impact(measured by a Puttlab over 2 months). My impact scatter was about a millimeter above the sweetspot and very consistent.

Regards the roll of my rock ....well the guys at the Taylor Made Performance Institute tested me for 2 hours and my roll was pretty good(dare I be modest????), and the only recommendation was that I use their newest groove technology when it comes out.

The greens I play are tour caliber...when the Manzella Acadamy comes to Baltimore this year Brian will I'm sure attest to their quality.

This should not be about me though. You have come to some conclusions about your stroke and what works for you. So disregard my thoughts as they apply to your putting game if your critical analysis leads you elsewhere.

Cheers,
Damon