Delagging players- why?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hi
I was wondering if anyone knew what the justification for delagging certain players is? for example Leadbetter said he wanted to delag charles howell in 2002 for the reason "he hits his 10 degree driver abit low"- personally i cant understand that, why is hitting a driver low a problem for charles howell. Other teachers have taught delagging, i dont understand why, Hogan and Moe norman had a lot of lag, so has sergio and they are all fine strikers.
 
Delag

I wanted to ask Brian this question also...
That's what I'm working on right now, I need to delag the clubhead\shaft at impact because I don't have enough axis tilt at impact so with a 10.5 degree driver I want more shallow level angle of attack to the ball and get the ball airbone, Brian I know "hit down with driver...."

Video of my Delag drill and charles howell, Tiger swingvision( the video is at the lower half of the page)
http://files.filefront.com/7384183

With my short irons a decending angle of attack is ok, but 6, 5 and woods I FEEL that I'm to steep to the ball,
so I kind of trying to release the clubhead even in my transition to get a straight line with the shaft and my left arm at impact.
From the video of my swing you can see that I have also a "closed" clubface at the top so at impact I can really have horizontal hinge, I using more of angled hinge and I feel that I can't really release the clubhead like with my irons (Brian what do you think about that?)

Brian, I saw all your videos including "Never slice again 2" to actually learning how to OPEN the clubface going back, how crazy that sounds!? I feel that with the driver my whole swing is one "CLOSED" clubface swing ...


howelldown2qc7.jpg

howellimpact4kc3.jpg

transitioncm7.jpg

impact1sf8.jpg

afterimpact3pe8.jpg

howellimpact3ironnh9.jpg

impact2ironvz7.jpg

snedekerimpactdriverte1.jpg

tigerimpactdriveraq4.jpg

elsik2.jpg
 
Last edited:
to hot chilli

What sort of shots then does the extra lag you have produce? if you are just too steep into the ball then you could just change your ball or shaft to raise the flight.
Im trying to understand why people would remove lag from their swing when it dosnt cause any directional errors.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Because they STOOPID --Ronald Winfrey, Norman Playground Legend

When I was young, everytime I saw a person taking a lesson and hit they hit a slice, the pro would then pose a funky "hands forward" position as the REASON for the right-to-right shot.

Something like the position that Jim Hardy poses in for the so-called "stuck-behind-you" position.

These pros just don't really know, ya know?

Ben Hogan, Byron Nelson, Moe Norman, Art Wall (Masters champ who made 40+aces), Lee Trevino, Sergio Garcia, etc.

ALL HAD VERY FORWARD HANDS AND COULD HIT IT STRAIGHTER THAN YOU COULD POINT!!!!!

So "accumulator lag" is something that is often blamed for a variety of maladies, but in the long run:

JUST FIX THE PATH AND THE CLUBFACE and make the PIVOT help the cause and be done with it.

Of course, what would they have to sell? :D
 
When I was young, everytime I saw a person taking a lesson and hit they hit a slice, the pro would then pose a funky "hands forward" position as the REASON for the right-to-right shot.

Something like the position that Jim Hardy poses in for the so-called "stuck-behind-you" position.

These pros just don't really know, ya know?

Ben Hogan, Byron Nelson, Moe Norman, Art Wall (Masters champ who made 40+aces), Lee Trevino, Sergio Garcia, etc.

ALL HAD VERY FORWARD HANDS AND COULD HIT IT STRAIGHTER THAN YOU COULD POINT!!!!!

So "accumulator lag" is something that is often blamed for a variety of maladies, but in the long run:

JUST FIX THE PATH AND THE CLUBFACE and make the PIVOT help the cause and be done with it.

Of course, what would they have to sell? :D


BAMM!

Signed,


Emeril
 
Brian Thanks for set me back on track,I'm truly happy to be a member of this forum!

When I was young, everytime I saw a person taking a lesson and hit they hit a slice, the pro would then pose a funky "hands forward" position as the REASON for the right-to-right shot.

Something like the position that Jim Hardy poses in for the so-called "stuck-behind-you" position.

These pros just don't really know, ya know?

Ben Hogan, Byron Nelson, Moe Norman, Art Wall (Masters champ who made 40+aces), Lee Trevino, Sergio Garcia, etc.

ALL HAD VERY FORWARD HANDS AND COULD HIT IT STRAIGHTER THAN YOU COULD POINT!!!!!

So "accumulator lag" is something that is often blamed for a variety of maladies, but in the long run:

JUST FIX THE PATH AND THE CLUBFACE and make the PIVOT help the cause and be done with it.

Of course, what would they have to sell? :D

After watching "Confessions of a former flipper" and I just finish reading Bobby Clamppett "Impact Zone", It hit me, I'm trying to lose one of the imperative that I actually own naturally, MY LAG!
As seen in the Pictures 2 Years ago, I almost had no Lag,
impact2005ui4.jpg

but in the proccess of building my swing my Body developed sort of feeling for getting the hands forward of the ball and the clubhead lagging behind them.
impact6hh7.jpg

The problem with MY DRIVER is that I really never learn how to release that angle (left arm - shaft) at seperation or after that, so THE FEELING with my hands forward is that I'm using my shoulder going through the ball like in PUTTING! and holding back with an angled hinge, not really releasing the accumulators (2nd and 3rd I think, Right elbow and angle of left arm - shaft.


I work a lot by trial and error, experimenting ( ball position, setup/address height, distance from the ball, plane, axis tilt, release, grip and much more),
I sometime rather go practice short game and new ideas working on my swing than go out and play( I feel that I don't want engraining more of my faults before I know how and why to fix them).
and really I got to a point, well.. hitting the wall.

I really don't know what's right anymore...looking for the pop instructions tips or just stick with the "Yellow Book",
and after 2-3 days of experimenting with delagging the clubhead I got reasonable results ( I'm a good athlete) with my shots but the feeling of the punching sweet spot hit with the lag that I had with my iron were gone and my driver also suffer a bit so...
Back to the beginning, fix the clubface and getting ball airbone consistently with my long irons\driver.

This is my swing 2.5 years ago ( when I start playing) and my swing today, and a few pros swingvision swings (the preview window is at lower half of the page):
http://files.filefront.com/7436346

My faults as I see it (50% is perhaps only my imagination)

1.loosing Spine angle at impact ( probley from all this throwing and not sustaing lag).
2."closed" clubface during the whole swing(Brian you have to agree with me on this one), Can't release the clubhead with my driver, irons are ok,(I think it's more mentally).
3.Pivot, getting closer to the plane line/ball with my lower body.
4.Sometimes over the top clubhead path.
5.I get too Punchy and low ball flight.
6.Grip, at the top of my backswing I REGRIP before start down.


Again, there are many factors why the swing doesn't work
on the course like at the practice range, I think is more mentally, I've been playing only for a year and I'm trying to understand this, with this game I THINK 85% IS IN YOUR MIND AND IF YOU GOT YOUR FUNDAMENTALS AND THE IMPERATIVES THAN YOU'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK, AND THE GAME/PRACTICE IS MUCH MORE FUN AND EASY.

benhoganpracticesonthedja3.jpg

10mickeywrightsequence7zr5.jpg

leetrevinosequencechulaqe6.jpg


There are few ways to swing the club but for consistent result you've got to know why, how and what you're doing and work work work.

Garcia has a lot of lag and his hands are so fast the he releasing the angle just before impact without flipping.
The left arm and shaft almost vertical line at seperation without losing lag!
garciatransitionqx4.jpg

garciaatseperationcx4.jpg

garciaafterimapactdf3.jpg
 
Last edited:

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Hot Chilli...

Not sure if I have this right...

You want me to tell you how not to have TOO MUCH Forward Lean?

There are lots of definitions being throw around here that need clearing up:

Steep

Shallow

Angle of Attack

Plane Angle

Release Type

Forward Lean

Accumulator Lag

Lag Pressure

Throw-Out Action

Up the left arm vs. Past the left arm.

Yikes!

You ask the question, and I'll do a video.
 
Higher ball Trajectory

Brian thanks for the answer,

I know it looks like a lot of definitions, I guess I tried to explain all my faults at once...

I'm sure I understand almost all of them, and really I try use a few to achieve a HIGHER BALL FLIGHT, that's it for now that's my goal for the next month, of course I got the other imperatives.
I experiment with ball position, setup/address height, distance from the ball, axis tilt, release, grip and much more to get this goal right now that's it.
I have the other ball flights draw, fade, low and but high ball flight, something doesn't work. ( I was so dispirited that I try even thorw the clubhead which work a few times but like I said before it got me in the end with fat shots).

Again thanks for the answer I was afraid a bit that you'll get mad about this thread with this title Delag and think what the heck this guy wants from me?
Well, I shouldn't have...
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top