Pivot Brake

[tbarbertab]

Brian,

I was watching the video of my lesson this week and came across the part were you talked about Pivot Brake (or Break???). This was a term I'd never heard before, and it was interesting how you described it's part in the downswing Kinetic chain. I thought maybe some of the forum members might like to hear your description of this. I'm sure some of your more knowledgeable members already know this term. I'd try to describe it but I'd never do it justice...

 

[Brian Manzella]

Pivot Braking...

I co-opted the term from the moradists.

(I give credit where it is due)

But, as far as I know, I was the first one to EVER talk about it. I figured it out in the late 80's with my video camera. I threw clubs and found out I didn't PIVOT to the finish. Then I saw Gideon Airel talk about it in the little manual that came with the video of his.

THAT WAS BECUASE YOU ONLY PIVOT TO THE RELEASE!

Then the "Breaking" (Almost never complete stopping) of the HIPS, trasfers speed to the SHOULDERS, which in turn to the ARMS then the WRISTS.

The "Kinetic Chain."

I was bit ahead of my time, but of course 100 others probably wrote it long before me, now the moradists call it "Breaking."

I like it (the term), I use it, and I give credit.

The hard part is learning it, but if you have it, like Mike Finney....then BOOM!

 

[tongzilla]

intuitively opposite

how do we reconcile "breaking" with "doing all the work with your pivot" (for example, in one of your vids, you talk about how people get throwaway if they stop pivoting)?

 

[eddielaw]

4/13/2004

Search of former posts reveals post by Brian on 4/13/04 explaining this "brake" concept, i.e., brake point equals end of swing felt by throwing a club... using a club, its force pulls hips and shoulders to the actual visual finish.

 

[dodger]

A hip brake is causing me some confusion. Tiger and other players have talked of their hips turning too quickly and leaving their arms behind. I have been told by non-AI instructors that I do the same thing. Can the hips brake too soon? In other words should the left hip start to clear from the top or "wait" until the arms get to a certain position in the downswing. What effect does clubface position at the top have on this issue? Thanks for the thread, it is a good one.

 

[tbarbertab]

Search of former posts reveals post by Brian on 4/13/04 explaining this "brake" concept, i.e., brake point equals end of swing felt by throwing a club... using a club, its force pulls hips and shoulders to the actual visual finish.

Can you give me the link to this thread? I can't seem to find it via Search....thanks

 

[shootin4par]

brian, when you threw clubs where was your aiming point to throw the clubs to?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Good question...

brian, when you threw clubs where was your aiming point to throw the clubs to?

I went to my High School Football stadium, Chalmette High. I stood on a large wooden platform they built for the trumpeters to play the National Anthem on. It is about 15 feet high. Below me was the Pole Vault pit with the foam rubber in it.

I videoed myself throwing the club FIRST at the target, then at the ball, then a few feet behind the ball, then a couple of feet in front of the ball in increments.

I saw which one looked the most like golf, and it was quite a few feet forward of the "ball," probably 5 to 10 feet.

IN EVERY ONE OF THEM my Pivot stopped well short of a full "Tiger Woods" finish.

I then had a pal "White Athletic" Tape my hands to the club and TRIED to release the club at various spots. I finished like Tiger.

I did this in about 1988.

How old were you in 1988, Neil?

 

[shootin4par]

that sounds like a pretty cool way to do it
that is something that would be pretty interested to see. Things such as that I would rather analyze then a lot of the golf swings
in 1998 I was doing kickflips, ollie imposibles and smacking my head on something hard with regularity. Too much second axis tilt when riding a skateboard does not work well. But age dont matter much

 

[Brian Manzella]

that sounds like a pretty cool way to do it
that is something that would be pretty interested to see. Things such as that I would rather analyze then a lot of the golf swings

I will have to recreate the tests, since the footage is long gone in the Great Flood of ought5.

 

[eddielaw]

Can you give me the link to this thread? I can't seem to find it via Search....thanks

tbarbertab posted: "Can you give me the link to this thread? I can't seem to find it via Search....thanks"

The article is titled: MAY 2004- Perfect Pivot Part 2- The Downswing!; I would give you a link but not sure how to do that ... yet

 

[eddielaw]

Here it is!

http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3743&highlight=Perfect+Pivot+Part

 

[shootin4par]

I would imagine on those tests you did manipulation would be hard so you would have to "swing it right" to achieve the feelings and positions. some real meat and potatoes probably showed up on the videos. I would not want you to go through the trouble of recreation, too bad they got wiped out though

 

[The Return of NAT]

Maximixing a Trnsfer of Momentum

As Brian has attested to several times..."Braking" the acceleration creates a greater transfer of momentum...one of the real secrets to generation of force for the swinger...Accelerate briefly...tap the brakes....Momentum transfer...


Why is it that when you have stack of books in the backseat of the car and you hit the gas pedal the books slide toward the seat...inertia creates a "lag pressure"....now once you accelerate and the books are going the same speed of the car...lag pressure seemingly is reduced....but when you slam on the brakes because a little kid jumped into the road..the books go flying form the backseat of the car to the windshield.....That is the purpose of momentum transfer...to help generate a "higher overtaking rate" from the segments of the pivot into the angle formed by the left arm and the club for throwout action....Now ...timing this is usually restricted to the athletically gifted but not exclusively....Different distances required different amounts of momentum..thus different degrees of hitting the accelerator and the brake pedal....Everydrive a stick?...Swinging with momentum transfer is like driving a stick shift!!!!

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

As Brian has attested to several times..."Braking" the acceleration creates a greater transfer of momentum...one of the real secrets to generation of force for the swinger...Accelerate briefly...tap the brakes....Momentum transfer...


Why is it that when you have stack of books in the backseat of the car and you hit the gas pedal the books slide toward the seat...inertia creates a "lag pressure"....now once you accelerate and the books are going the same speed of the car...lag pressure seemingly is reduced....but when you slam on the brakes because a little kid jumped into the road..the books go flying form the backseat of the car to the windshield.....That is the purpose of momentum transfer...to help generate a "higher overtaking rate" from the segments of the pivot into the angle formed by the left arm and the club for throwout action....Now ...timing this is usually restricted to the athletically gifted but not exclusively....Different distances required different amounts of momentum..thus different degrees of hitting the accelerator and the brake pedal....Everydrive a stick?...Swinging with momentum transfer is like driving a stick shift!!!!

This sounds interesting and something i need to experiement with.

 

[puttmad]

That's all we drive over here....

 

[puttmad]

...

As Brian has attested to several times..."Braking" the acceleration creates a greater transfer of momentum...one of the real secrets to generation of force for the swinger...Accelerate briefly...tap the brakes....Momentum transfer...

So Nat,
What is the equvalent of tapping the brake in the golf swing...what do you actually have to do to get your foot on the pedal?

 

[bew69]

NG

For what it's worth...When I was a student of Natural Golf (before I saw the light), this principle was written about extensively in the Natural Golf magazine and was one of the reasons that Natural Golfers put the brakes on their pivot thrust.

Bruce

 

[golfie]

Momentum transfer

NAT,

Sorry but there is no transfer of momentum in your "book in the backseat example". The book retains the same amount of momentum it had before braking. The car loses momentum ( and velocity). NO momentum is transferred to the book. None.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

NAT,

Sorry but there is no transfer of momentum in your "book in the backseat example". The book retains the same amount of momentum it had before braking. The car loses momentum ( and velocity). NO momentum is transferred to the book. None.

So essentially, the book has the same momemtum and velocity while the car slows down, thus it flies foward?