1st swing in a Long time

[Mike O]

Love it. Thanks for the critique, but could you elaborate on the points you made? Youtube is tough to get stills from so I uploaded the sequence photos from the two 8 iron vids I posted earlier. Also went back and read as much as I could about the TSP and EP, so I think my lines are in the right places. When taking the vids, I also tried very hard to get the camera on the hands - I think I remember Brian mentioning something about that. Anyways... here are the pics with a couple questions...

OTT

I was under the impression that you can't be OTT if you are on or under the TSP. Of course, my understanding could be wrong. Would you explain the OTT you see so I can take the steps to correct it?

I did notice a bit of carry at the top (in the video) that puts the butt of the club above the TSP (if my lines are correct). I think I've got rid of that yesterday, but does that make the downswing OTT?

FLIP

I love the archives on this site. A couple weeks back, I was going through some old threads about this very topic. IIRC, the word was if the left wrist was flat it can't be a flip. To my eyes, the hand conditions in these photos look pretty much the same from frame to frame - the biggest difference I see between them is the shaft flex. Would you explain were the flip is? I used to be a big 'time-the-flip' player, maybe I didn't get rid of it?

FALL BACK

Not sure I've heard this term before. Would you explain what it is?

STIFF, FAT, LAZY (paraphrasing )

Let's not forget, the camera adds 50-60 lbs.

I've been in "Exercise programs" my whole life (basketball 12 months/year from 3rd grade thru college). That's largely why you can hear me popping and cracking, also called walking, from down the hall. Operations on the wheels, and now the hinge, have kinda removed the interest in any more exercise programs. Unless you count physical therapy and swimming .

I don't associate my gutimus maximus with lack of exercise. I can/do lose and gain weight all the time. Not the best way to go about it, I know. For me it's an intake problem, and the problem with fixing that problem is - I LOVE GOOD FOOD

Flexibility. I know it's good to have and all, but you don't really make the decision to get two verts in the lower back fused together with the hopes of coming out the other side flexible. For the past 2 months I've been virtually pain free and I don't have numb legs anymore. I'm sure I'll eventually get back to stretching (outside of therapy), but right now, if I can get to the top without cringing and down to impact without flinching - I'm flexible .

Got a lot more excuses if your interested .

You said you wanted any and all feedback - so since you asked for "Simon Cowell" - I felt like I would give you "Simon Cowell". Anyway - looks like you understood that. Practice green looked impressive!

OTT- Down the line view
The hands start down from the top - by moving "too flat"- i.e. out not down. Take a look at the first couple of frames on from down the line and I think you'll see that (down the line view just as it turns to 7 seconds). In general, it's as if they follow a flat downswing shoulder turn. (That's where the flexibility might help you or just getting back to normal and not post-op could take care of this, then again you may need to be a lot steeper on the downswing start down)

FLIP- Face on view
Although you get to impact - decently - it's the wrist motions after impact that make me think you should be maintaining your clubhead lag pressure better. Here again, it may just be the post-op non full swing that makes it easy for you to not really compress the ball properly. It could be - just making a full MOTION swing- at this time is all you might be trying to accomplish. Or it may be just the result of hitting off the mat- and not having the ability to hit more down.

FALL BACK- Face on view
I just thought that the movement was somewhat odd from when the hands reach head high - after the ball is gone to when you reach your finish- the left knee really moves backwards and you see the "rock back". It might just be a trait you picked up to more easily let you get to the finish- rotate- etc.

In summary, it wasn't my intention on my first post or this one to offer you the solution. it was my intention to A) point areas out that you might want to look at, B) then either disregard them as not important or come up with your own solution(s) or correction(s). As I mentioned above - these maybe be the result of the post-up stiffness, the "mat" swing, the 3/4 power swing, OR they could be issues that have been in your game and you would want to work on.

 

[mgranato]

You said you wanted any and all feedback - so since you asked for "Simon Cowell" - I felt like I would give you "Simon Cowell". Anyway - looks like you understood that. Practice green looked impressive!

OTT
The hands start down from the top - by moving "too flat"- i.e. out not down. Take a look at the first couple of frames from down the line and I think you'll see that. In general, it's as if they follow a flat downswing shoulder turn. (That's where the flexibility might help you or just getting back to normal and not post-op could take care of this)

FLIP
Although you get to impact - decently - it's the wrist motions after impact that make me think you should be maintaining your clubhead lag pressure better. Here again, it may just be the post-op non full swing that makes it easy for you to not really compress the ball properly. It could be - just making a full MOTION swing- at this time is all you might be trying to accomplish. Or it may be just the result of hitting off the mat- and not having the ability to hit more down.

FALL BACK
I just thought that the movement was somewhat odd from when the shaft reaches parallel to the ground position after the ball is gone to when you reach your finish- the left knee really moves backwards.

In summary, it wasn't my intention on my first post or this one to offer you the solution. it was my intention to A) point areas out that you might want to look at, B) then either disregard them as not important or come up with your own solution(s) or correction(s). As I mentioned above - these maybe be the result of the post-up stiffness, the "mat" swing, the 3/4 power swing, OR they could be issues that have been in your game and you would want to work on.

Thanks for the reply. The "Simon Cowell" version is fine by me .

Also thanks for clarifying what you were talking about, I follow your comments better now. I'll look for the "solutions" when I get a chance to work with Brian. Right now I'm just looking for "red flags" that I can clean up so my time on Brian's clock will be spent moving forward and not fixing things that I could've done with "homework" . I also hope my questions to you don't come off as being defensive about my swing. I'm as nonemotional about this stuff as anyone you'll meet, and would never try to defend a swing that sent the ball 4' .

 

[Mike O]

Flip? Over the top? Weight loss?

Go play with your dowels somewhere else. Don't come in here insulting forum members about their weight.

1) Mgranato asked for any and all feedback- after X number of Paula answers- I thought that he might value a Simon Cowell answer - and be able to take it- which he did.

2) Thinking that someone's flexibility might be limiting there movement potential and then suggesting that flexibility and a weight loss program might be items to look at to increase one's flexibility- I don't think that's insulting. Presenting it in such a concise manner as I did might imply insulting but he already asked and set the context for the answer in that format. I read it that way and he was OK with it. If you asked for help or feedback with your swing and everyone said "great swing" and one said you need to change this- which of those posts would be more helpful? For me with my swing and approach to the game- I would appreciate the one that pointed out a problem- and that's why I gave the feedback as I did.

3) Most importantly, just because I have posted over 1000 times on Lynn Blake's forum and only over 100 times on this forum- that doesn't mean that I am a student of Lynn Blake, a "follower" of Lynn Blake. I've never used a dowel in my life and I have my own approach to the game of golf - so I'm not on anyone's "team" or "group" or "faction" and I don't post here with some kind of agenda. I certainly respect the passion and "open" approach that Brian has for the game of golf.

It's not my intention to continue to debate or discuss this issue or my post- feel free to have the last word.

 

[holeout]

Thanks, HOut, but the only thing I can imagine ever getting insulted over by something someone said on a forum would be if they called me a BIG 10 fan

Fair enough. I just know that you:

1) Aren't flipping.

2) Aren't so-called "over the top."

You have a great swing. I'd be very surprised if you were anywhere north of a 5 handicap.

 

[holeout]

1) Mgranato asked for any and all feedback- after X number of Paula answers- I thought that he might value a Simon Cowell answer - and be able to take it- which he did.

2) Thinking that someone's flexibility might be limiting there movement potential and then suggesting that flexibility and a weight loss program might be items to look at to increase one's flexibility- I don't think that's insulting. Presenting it in such a concise manner as I did might imply insulting but he already asked and set the context for the answer in that format. I read it that way and he was OK with it. If you asked for help or feedback with your swing and everyone said "great swing" and one said you need to change this- which of those posts would be more helpful? For me with my swing and approach to the game- I would appreciate the one that pointed out a problem- and that's why I gave the feedback as I did.

3) Most importantly, just because I have posted over 1000 times on Lynn Blake's forum and only over 100 times on this forum- that doesn't mean that I am a student of Lynn Blake, a "follower" of Lynn Blake. I've never used a dowel in my life and I have my own approach to the game of golf - so I'm not on anyone's "team" or "group" or "faction" and I don't post here with some kind of agenda. I certainly respect the passion and "open" approach that Brian has for the game of golf.

It's not my intention to continue to debate or discuss this issue or my post- feel free to have the last word.

Fair enough. I was probably a bit too harsh. Glad that you don't have an agenda and I love that you can think for yourself. My sincere apologies to you. Friends?

However, I still don't think he is either flipping or over the top.

 

[Mike O]

Thanks for the reply. The "Simon Cowell" version is fine by me .

Also thanks for clarifying what you were talking about, I follow your comments better now. I'll look for the "solutions" when I get a chance to work with Brian. Right now I'm just looking for "red flags" that I can clean up so my time on Brian's clock will be spent moving forward and not fixing things that I could've done with "homework" . I also hope my questions to you don't come off as being defensive about my swing. I'm as nonemotional about this stuff as anyone you'll meet, and would never try to defend a swing that sent the ball 4' .

Understood. If you still are hitting the 8 iron 4 feet when you see Brian - I guarantee he will find a solution so that you have much better distance results. Actually I'm sure he'll help you no matter what. If you wanted to post-back or PM me on how you like your putting green, type, cost etc. I'm looking at something similar in the future and would love to get some tips, advice, etc.

 

[vjsinger]

Understood. If you still are hitting the 8 iron 4 feet when you see Brian - I guarantee he will find a solution so that you have much better distance results. Actually I'm sure he'll help you no matter what. If you wanted to post-back or PM me on how you like your putting green, type, cost etc. I'm looking at something similar in the future and would love to get some tips, advice, etc.

Sorry to butt in, but me too...the practice set-up is really cool. cheers

 

[Mike O]

Fair enough. I was probably a bit too harsh. Glad that you don't have an agenda and I love that you can think for yourself. My sincere apologies to you. Friends?

However, I still don't think he is either flipping or over the top.

No problem and I have no problem that you don't think he is flipping or over the top- in fact it's great to have forums where there are differing opinions.

In this case - instead of debating whether he is or isn't - I'm sure he'll decide with the help of Brian - what to work on.

I just was pointing out areas that I would have a hint that he might want to look at. Without observing in-person ball contact, quality of game, etc. etc. - you're correct that he may not have a flipping "problem" or a golf game problem - after all there are some PGA pro's that you could look at that might have OTT movements, FLIP looking swings, FALLBACK finishes- that doesn't mean that they need to change that.

Finally, so you understand the context of my post- this guy has a "good" golf swing- single figure handicap - I understand that. My OTT, Flip, etc. comments didn't mean that he sucked- it just meant that for me - for someone wanting feedback - that those areas or issues jumped out at me as being "noticable" starting points for places to look for improvement. Doesn't matter if he is a +1 if he's asking for feedback he's wanting to get better and willing to change.

 

[mgranato]

Understood. If you still are hitting the 8 iron 4 feet when you see Brian - I guarantee he will find a solution so that you have much better distance results. Actually I'm sure he'll help you no matter what. If you wanted to post-back or PM me on how you like your putting green, type, cost etc. I'm looking at something similar in the future and would love to get some tips, advice, etc.

Sorry to butt in, but me too...the practice set-up is really cool. cheers

Like the swing, the practice area is home made/DIY too. It's only a couple weeks old, and I got a bunch of pics of the process. I'd be happy to start a thread about the build if a topic like that doesn't fall outside what Brian wants in "Golf Discussions".

 

[spktho]

Damn good swings considering the fused L-spine. A word of caution though, keep your core strong and with stamina. Not only spinal stabilization exercises but also some rotary strengthenning. Your Physical Therapist should be instructing you on these.

Now that L4-5 aren't moving, L5-S1 on the bottom and L3-4 on top will be wanting to move more if you still try to make the full backswing you did before the fusion. Hopefully cages were put in to maintain the disc space as well. I had discectomy surgery way back in 1987 when I was 18 and have had back trouble ever since with two more disc herniations, but am avoiding surgery so far with only the occasional 6 months or so of pain with a re-injury due to being lazy and not keeping the core muscles strong.

Best of luck and I'm sure Brian will get you playing better than before the surgery.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Mike O, I respect your opinions ,no doubt, but i thought we were all past the notion that you can sustain lag pressure. No?

 

[vjsinger]

Like the swing, the practice area is home made/DIY too. It's only a couple weeks old, and I got a bunch of pics of the process. I'd be happy to start a thread about the build if a topic like that doesn't fall outside what Brian wants in "Golf Discussions".

I don't see how that would be a problem...Brian?

 

[birdie_man]

Mike O, I respect your opinions ,no doubt, but i thought we were all past the notion that you can sustain lag pressure. No?

Sustain pressure period or sustain pressure in order to STLOC?

(Sustain The Line Of Compression)

 

[spuds]

Your swing looks really good since only a year since your surgery.You do not look like you have too much of a flexibilty problem and will only get better I am sure. I had 2 lumbar fusions (seven years ago) a year apart and was a scratch player before, but took six years before I could play again. I have some flexibilty problems but was playing almost to were I was before. I wish you luck in your recovery but looks like you are well on you way to being almost normal, which I know is all relative. Wish I had your practice area.

 

[Mike O]

Mike O, I respect your opinions ,no doubt, but i thought we were all past the notion that you can sustain lag pressure. No?

Kevin,
Can't say that I've kept up on that issue here or maybe I did but lost interest - anyway- instead of re-hashing a dead issue - I would say that procedurally or psychologically you can certainly have the sensation of sustaining lag pressure beyond impact. Like many issues in golf/movement - what's happening and what you try to do can be very different- while understanding both is important, it's the procedure/intention that ultimately is the key. For example, from the top of a full swing- do you try to move your hands away from the target (backwards) until they get hip high on the downswing? Probably not - but that is what happens.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Funny you should say that but I actually do move them back and away!

 

[mgranato]

Damn good swings considering the fused L-spine. A word of caution though, keep your core strong and with stamina. Not only spinal stabilization exercises but also some rotary strengthenning. Your Physical Therapist should be instructing you on these.

Now that L4-5 aren't moving, L5-S1 on the bottom and L3-4 on top will be wanting to move more if you still try to make the full backswing you did before the fusion. Hopefully cages were put in to maintain the disc space as well. I had discectomy surgery way back in 1987 when I was 18 and have had back trouble ever since with two more disc herniations, but am avoiding surgery so far with only the occasional 6 months or so of pain with a re-injury due to being lazy and not keeping the core muscles strong.

Best of luck and I'm sure Brian will get you playing better than before the surgery.

Ouch, back surgery at 18? Were you involved in an accident of some sort?

Yep, they did put in a cage - I was amazed at how big those bolts were. He also said the one below and above (which are fine now) would be the ones at risk next. Something to the effect that the chance for them to go bad increases by 10% every year after that first fusion .

Good luck with your pain management, and hopefully you'll continue to keep the knife away.

 

[mgranato]

Your swing looks really good since only a year since your surgery.You do not look like you have too much of a flexibilty problem and will only get better I am sure. I had 2 lumbar fusions (seven years ago) a year apart and was a scratch player before, but took six years before I could play again. I have some flexibilty problems but was playing almost to were I was before. I wish you luck in your recovery but looks like you are well on you way to being almost normal, which I know is all relative. Wish I had your practice area.

Thanks for sharing. It's encouraging to hear you are close to your pre-op play. I've got hope for the same, but I'll really be happy just to get that first 18 in no matter what the score is. I can't imagine how doubly weird 2 fusions must feel. Did you need to make any noticeable swing changes to your action to get to were you are now?

 

[spktho]

Ouch, back surgery at 18? Were you involved in an accident of some sort?

Baseball, swung at a low outside curveball--bent over and twisting--I used to have some good power, but I guess my back wasn't ready for that swing. Still went on to play college ball. Now I stick to golf.....and wakeboarding in the summer.