2 way miss

[birly-shirly]

Would appreciate the Manzella collective views on this analysis of what causes a 2 way miss - mostly blocks, but occasional bad hooks.

Some folks will no doubt guess the source - but I'm not looking to bandy names around. Respect the house rules, and all that...

"The body must make room for the arms to swing freely on an in-to-in arc....It must do so by turning to the right on the backswing, and then clearing to the left on the forward swing.

When the body makes way for the arms to swing freely on this in-to-in arc, they can more readily square the clubface at the same instant that the clubhead returns to the ball.

If the left side does not clear, the arms cannot square the clubface. They are blocked from doing so and the clubface often remains open at impact. Occasionally, the hands and wrists will react on their own and will snap the clubface closed prematurely, so that the ball hooks sharply.

Your ability to turn away during your backswing and clear during the forward swing depends primarily on your posture at the ball before you swing.

Set up with knees well flexed, back more upright and chin up."

 

[OLIVER1]

Birly,
At first blush what you outlined seems reasonable, but surely the whole affair collapses under the weight of gross over-simplification, don't you think?
Any golfer with any nous and could do what is described with the body and still walk away licking his wounds with a two-way miss for the ages...

 

[wulsy]

Too inside path. Many ways to achieve this which are not related to a failure to "clear the left side" through impact.

The concept related in the above text is laughably simplistic and way out of date. JMHO.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Jacobs

 

[spktho]

Sounds like Michael's. The posture into the backswing and at the top that he has shown in a few threads and videos on his site has been extremely helpful for my pull habit. For me a too far to the right side leaning backswing, "fore left". Get it right and it really feels too simple like rotate on the backswing, rotate on the downswing and the arm swing/club goes where it should.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Sounds like Michael's. The posture into the backswing and at the top that he has shown in a few threads and videos on his site has been extremely helpful for my pull habit. For me a too far to the right side leaning backswing, "fore left". Get it right and it really feels too simple like rotate on the backswing, rotate on the downswing and the arm swing/club goes where it should.

John Jacobs

 

[magicmarker]

Might be true about somebody somewhere or something. I thought Tiger fought two way misses a couple years back and his 'stuck' position included a cleared left side.

Two way miss players are the ones who have serious path consistency issues. These issues can arise from a myriad of reasons. jmo

 

[spktho]

John Jacobs

oops.

The chin up is opposite, huh?

 

[ekennedy]

There are a myriad of reasons why a player's path may drift too far to the right (inside-out for a righty)...poor sequencing, poor ball position, improper alignment for the intended shot, closed clubface...but IN SOME PLAYERS, when the path drifts excessively to the right, in an effort to maintain both a downward angle of attack as well as a sufficiently open clubface to prevent a hook, the shaft MAY lean so far forward at impact and get so high that even the slightest downarching of the wrists or twisting of the shaft (gamma) can lead to an uncontrollable hook.

The result, HIGH blocks and LOW hooks. When's the last time you hit a high duck hook?

 

[dschultz6072]

Is there a such thing as a high duck hook?

 

[ekennedy]

Is there a such thing as a high duck hook?

That was my point, counselor.

 

[Robbierob99]

Two way miss players are the ones who have serious path consistency issues. These issues can arise from a myriad of reasons. jmo

Actually, I'd think the AoA and ClubPath (good or bad) generally stay the same (at least without proper instruction)... Its players with FACE ANGLE issues that live in Twowaymissville. I'd also guess they don't find the center of the face as often.

 

[DCgolf]

It is Jabobs and the funny part is i never saw him give this lesson. Every time he had an under in-to-out guy, he put the ball on the ground in front of the left foot and told them to turn their CHEST into the ball.

 

[OLIVER1]

It is Jabobs and the funny part is i never saw him give this lesson. Every time he had an under in-to-out guy, he put the ball on the ground in front of the left foot and told them to turn their CHEST into the ball.

DC. Not to threadjack Birly's earlier enquiry, but I would love to hear more of your story when you saw Jacobs teach. By all accounts, his teaching skills were only bettered by how good of a human being he is/was. If you've got a moment and Birly doesn't mind a quick wander down memory lane for a post or two, it would be super to hear you reminisce...

 

[DCgolf]

DC. Not to threadjack Birly's earlier enquiry, but I would love to hear more of your story when you saw Jacobs teach. By all accounts, his teaching skills were only bettered by how good of a human being he is/was. If you've got a moment and Birly doesn't mind a quick wander down memory lane for a post or two, it would be super to hear you reminisce...

Out of respect for Brian Manzella I think that not a good idea on his forum.

 

[OLIVER1]

Out of respect for Brian Manzella I think that not a good idea on his forum.

That's fine. I know Brian has enormous respect for Jacobs, both personally and professionally and I was more after what he was like as a person and how he related to his students, rather than any teaching mechanics.
But I apologize for any slight predicament I may have put you in...

 

[DCgolf]

That's fine. I know Brian has enormous respect for Jacobs, both personally and professionally and I was more after what he was like as a person and how he related to his students, rather than any teaching mechanics.
But I apologize for any slight predicament I may have put you in...

Suffice it to say he was great a great, fine man from whom I learned a lot...

 

[Kevin Shields]

It is Jabobs and the funny part is i never saw him give this lesson. Every time he had an under in-to-out guy, he put the ball on the ground in front of the left foot and told them to turn their CHEST into the ball.

DC, I see this taking care of the in but not the under. Fair?

 

[DCgolf]

DC, I see this taking care of the in but not the under. Fair?

Ur talking out to in shallow? "the double wides" JJ used to call em. Nothing takes out the under necessarily. They still have to be made aware of the up and over but trying to hit a driver off the deck 6 inches forward has a better chance of staying up over. So does a serious downhill lie. Me thinks.

 

[DCgolf]

Butch Harmon once said "a lot of people called Jacobs a band aid guy; hell if he is you better go buy a whole box".