3D at Michael Jacobs' site

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drewyallop

drewyallop

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Explain tumble? now with 3D images

First time that I have seen 3D. Every shift, carry, pivot, alpha, beta and gamma shown in detail from every angle. This, in my view, is the only way to see exactly what a golfer's body is doing during the golf swing. Makes a nonsense out of the assertion that you can see anything by looking at stills and video.
 
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art

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GeoffDickson said:
I was surprised at how much the hips slide before they rotate.
Click to expand...

Dear GeoffDickson,

Do you, or anyone else know the name of the manufacturer of Mike's system?? Is it AMM/Titleist, or MATT's/Taylor ?? or ???

I have been using the 'demonstration AMM software for several years, and the ability to 'rotate' the avatar, and view the position of the major elements of the body from an infinite number of 'virtual' camera angles is very revealing.

In your case, I am very interested if you could just describe how the center of mass of your body moved as you stated "...surprised at how much the hips slide before they rotate". This lower body movement, and the 'apparent instantaneous screw axis of rotation' when the hips finally start to rotate is the CRUCIAL element in determining the degree of lower body dynamic stability, and margin, if it exists.

I am very pleased Mike has made this enormous investment, and look forward to discussions on this site as each individual tested has the opportunity to see 'inside their kinematic sequence' and hopefully post and allow all of us to learn the unique characteristics of each individual, AND in fact, each swing.

In the case of the AMM system, the angular velocity numeric data are presented with the avatar, approximately every 0.004 seconds, so for a normal swing, you can step thru the data 70 times for the down swing alone. Not meant to be a commercial BUT meant to enlighten all of us to the magnificence of this exploding digital technology era with which we are being blessed, and encouraged to use for better understanding golf truth.

Regards,
art
 
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GeoffDickson

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Art..I have no expertise to offer this conversation. My comment is based on my own naked eye and the placement of my computer mouse. Here is what i see, or more specifically, here is what i interpret from the 3D example......

During backswing, the left hip appears to move ever so slightly away from target, but is probably just due to the hip rotation away from target. If there is a lateral shift away from the ball, it is VERY small.

On the downswing, I see a lateral move of the hips which is then joined by the hip rotation towards target. The hip rotation towards target starts BEFORE the lateral slide is complete. Put alternatively, the lateral side 'morphs' (i.e. evolves) into the rotation. The right hip is almost level with ball at impact, much further towards target than at address.

The lateral shift component of the downswing is over before impact. I also note that the spine/centre of pelvis is just inside left foot during impact and follow through.

Are we seeing the same things? If yes, which of these are good or bad?
 
Matt Bryda

Matt Bryda

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To start with the little things..

I see "a stepping off of the left foot onto the right foot"

mentioned by Brian many years ago.
 
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spktho

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art said:
Dear GeoffDickson,

Do you, or anyone else know the name of the manufacturer of Mike's system?? Is it AMM/Titleist, or MATT's/Taylor ?? or ???

I have been using the 'demonstration AMM software for several years, and the ability to 'rotate' the avatar, and view the position of the major elements of the body from an infinite number of 'virtual' camera angles is very revealing.

In your case, I am very interested if you could just describe how the center of mass of your body moved as you stated "...surprised at how much the hips slide before they rotate". This lower body movement, and the 'apparent instantaneous screw axis of rotation' when the hips finally start to rotate is the CRUCIAL element in determining the degree of lower body dynamic stability, and margin, if it exists.

I am very pleased Mike has made this enormous investment, and look forward to discussions on this site as each individual tested has the opportunity to see 'inside their kinematic sequence' and hopefully post and allow all of us to learn the unique characteristics of each individual, AND in fact, each swing.

In the case of the AMM system, the angular velocity numeric data are presented with the avatar, approximately every 0.004 seconds, so for a normal swing, you can step thru the data 70 times for the down swing alone. Not meant to be a commercial BUT meant to enlighten all of us to the magnificence of this exploding digital technology era with which we are being blessed, and encouraged to use for better understanding golf truth.

Regards,
art
Click to expand...

Here are a couple of links to Michael's site with videos using the 3d system. He listed the specs somewhere, but I can't seem to find it.

Season 5 Episode 1

Follow up - 3D Explosive Golf Show
 
jay2010

jay2010

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You can also see the 3D model not trying to retain the angle (LAG) (No Tugging) very clearly. Great Stuff!
 
drewyallop

drewyallop

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GeoffDickson said:
On the downswing, I see a lateral move of the hips which is then joined by the hip rotation towards target. The hip rotation towards target starts BEFORE the lateral slide is complete. Put alternatively, the lateral side 'morphs' (i.e. evolves) into the rotation. The right hip is almost level with ball at impact, much further towards target than at address.

The lateral shift component of the downswing is over before impact. I also note that the spine/centre of pelvis is just inside left foot during impact and follow through.

Are we seeing the same things? If yes, which of these are good or bad?
Click to expand...

That is what I see too GeoffDickson. Was trying this shift/rotation yesterday and it does three things for me ... an effortless carry that eliminates the chunk, a powerful and compact hip rotation producing a slight axis tilt, and more leverage to power the downswing. Of course, this is exactly what happened when BM gave me "the business" but seeing it in 3d made it real again and a good visual memory to use in the swing.
 
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GeoffDickson

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It has certainly given me an image I keen to replicate...I am a flipper who has trouble getting hands in front of ball at impact. BM has got me thinking about getting right shoulder as far in front of ball at impact as possible...The 3D image now has me thinking that a better lateral shift, a better hip rotation will help with getting the right shoulder forward and in turn the position of hands at impact.
 
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art

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TROYNYGOLFER said:
Art,

Mike has the AMM 3-d system.[/QUOTE

Dear TROYNYGOLFER,

After graduating from Brooklyn Technical High School, I had the pleasure of spending 4 years in Troy at Rensselear getting a first class engineering education. After 3 years in California, I went back to Troy to do graduate work in Operations Research, Statistics, and some rocket science related subjects.

Thanks for the hospitality and the support of the school on the hill.

Also, thanks for the info on Mikes AMM 3D system; being back in Southern California and interested in golf science and truth, I have been fortunate to spend time with that system, and its creator, Phil Cheetham, who now is part of the 2012 Olympic testing and training function at Chiula Vista, just south of San Diego.

I hope you have a background in, or are at least interested in the science-based pursuit of golf truth. If so, let me know what areas are of particular interest to you.

Regards,
art
Click to expand...
 
M

Mike Richardson

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GeoffDickson said:
It has certainly given me an image I keen to replicate...I am a flipper who has trouble getting hands in front of ball at impact. BM has got me thinking about getting right shoulder as far in front of ball at impact as possible...The 3D image now has me thinking that a better lateral shift, a better hip rotation will help with getting the right shoulder forward and in turn the position of hands at impact.
Click to expand...

You are left handed?
 
P

Pete J

Banned
Geoff-thanks. How much forward shaft lean do you need to get the right shoulder in front of the ball(if you are right handed).
Seems like the shoulders have to be very level(little axis tilt) with a "lot" of slide to get in that position. I'm probably missing something.ii
 
TROYNYGOLFER

TROYNYGOLFER

New
art said:
TROYNYGOLFER said:
Art,

Mike has the AMM 3-d system.[/QUOTE

Dear TROYNYGOLFER,

After graduating from Brooklyn Technical High School, I had the pleasure of spending 4 years in Troy at Rensselear getting a first class engineering education. After 3 years in California, I went back to Troy to do graduate work in Operations Research, Statistics, and some rocket science related subjects.

Thanks for the hospitality and the support of the school on the hill.

Also, thanks for the info on Mikes AMM 3D system.........
I hope you have a background in, or are at least interested in the science-based pursuit of golf truth. If so, let me know what areas are of particular interest to you.

Regards,
art
Click to expand...

Your are more than welcome, Art. I spent many hours at 5 and 6 am at the RPI Field House dreaming of being being the next Bill Sack (RPI goalie) or Ken Dryden (Cornell and then Montreal Canadien's goalie). I love the contributions you are making to Brian's site, but despite having a degree in chemistry, a lot of this physics baffles me, and I spend almost as much time re-learning Physics 1 & 2 as I do on the site. Ever consider tutoring technical dummies for a modest fee? :)
Click to expand...
 
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GeoffDickson

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Pete J said:
Geoff-thanks. How much forward shaft lean do you need to get the right shoulder in front of the ball(if you are right handed).
Seems like the shoulders have to be very level(little axis tilt) with a "lot" of slide to get in that position. I'm probably missing something.ii
Click to expand...

Pete,

I think I only need about 4* of forward shaft lean...whilst BM encourages the sensation of getting the right shoulder in front of the ball, it doesn't actually happen...but the LESS it is behind the ball, the easier it is to get the hands in front of the ball...for me, right shoulder in front of the ball is a 'target', not an outcome.

I think I also look at it the other way around..I get ALOT of forward shaft lean without rotating my shoulders at all..but to achieve this I end up in a terrible/awkward/impractical position. My thinking at the moment is that by getting my right shoulder 'more forward' that will lead to forward shaft lean (of about 4*).
 
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