3D Biomechanics...the next frontier

[Frans@France]

Gather as much 3d information on as many of the best players in the world you can, then "run the numbers" to try and find similarities. The biggest point being a large sample size. One also needs to pay attention to the variations among all the best players and realize there may not be one best way to swing a golf club.

I would not do it like that I would record only my own swings together with the trackman data. And then study the good shots in full detail to understand why it was such a good shot for ME. Then I would use that data to understand my bad shot. With all that 3d data and trackman data I would be able to find the difference between my bad movements and good movements but also when I'm lost I can use the 3d data to return to my best shot movements.

If the 3d data would show that the difference between a "good swing move" and a "bad swing move" is so small that i can not automate it it is then time to learn a new/better "good swing move"

 

[spktho]

I would not do it like that I would record only my own swings together with the trackman data. And then study the good shots in full detail to understand why it was such a good shot for ME. Then I would use that data to understand my bad shot. With all that 3d data and trackman data I would be able to find the difference between my bad movements and good movements but also when I'm lost I can use the 3d data to return to my best shot movements.

If the 3d data would show that the difference between a "good swing move" and a "bad swing move" is so small that i can not automate it it is then time to learn a new/better "good swing move"

Individually, yes that would be a good way to use it.

My post was in response to the "method" teachers using 3d to try and prove their method.

 

[alexandjacob]

There is no text anywhere explaining the movements of the body segments in the swing that is in a form regular golfers can use and apply.

We intend to change that.


To me and maybe only me....(speaking for myself) this is ultra important

i am sure to others -6 +1 -1.5..etc etc...will be important............BUT to me

please just give me a simple understanding of body segment movements in a way

I can understand and apply.......I respect Trackman and Flightscope and all the other machines

BUT.....I am not interested in what they say.........I am interested in what YOU say.....

tell me HOW........thats what i need t know...........

Brian: Howard you are at +4....we want you to +1............(fake numbers ofcourse)

Howard: just stares at Brian

Brian: ok..i gotcha.......from the top of your swing i wa..........................

Howard: Thankyou.....

Brian: Howard hit this 7 iron..and remember.......................

Howardk here goes

Brian: Howard it went 155 right at target baby fade...............HOWARD you pured it

Howard: Brian?? what does pured it mean???

Brian: it means you..........got it....get it..and geeeez

once again happy holiday all

 

[Damon Lucas]

Howard,

Respectfully,

This is what separates Brian and the other Manzella instructors from almost the entire golf instruction population!

We take the information and customize it for each individual based on THEIR needs and THEIR mode and style of learning.

To get to that level of instruction, we are indeed seeking the best and most current science, and sometimes there is verbiage on the forum that is over some people's heads. You don't have to read those posts nor even try to understand them if you don't want to.

However, I do want to make the point that not EVERY word on this forum should be spoken at a third grader's level as some would suggest(not inferring you here, Howard). The dumbing down of language so that every body who reads a forum should understand the intent might be nice in the short term, but long term, only dumbs down the forum as a whole. I, for one, appreciate the many considered, astute, and thought inducing posts that many of the posters here(including the guys) make, as well as some that appear simple but have many far reaching ramifications.

Merry Xmas to you, and to all, and here's to a great 2011 for golfers and golfdom!

 

[btp]

So what you guys are saying is, to be a great instructor in the future, I'm gonna need 10,000 hours of teaching experience, a phd in biomechanics, a 30k trackman, 3d machine and maybe a white belt and some nice pants. And if I have time maybe a minor in psychology and human learning.

 

[alexandjacob]

damon...we r on same team

Howard,

Respectfully,

This is what separates Brian and the other Manzella instructors from almost the entire golf instruction population!

We take the information and customize it for each individual based on THEIR needs and THEIR mode and style of learning.

To get to that level of instruction, we are indeed seeking the best and most current science, and sometimes there is verbiage on the forum that is over some people's heads. You don't have to read those posts nor even try to understand them if you don't want to.

However, I do want to make the point that not EVERY word on this forum should be spoken at a third grader's level as some would suggest(not inferring you here, Howard). The dumbing down of language so that every body who reads a forum should understand the intent might be nice in the short term, but long term, only dumbs down the forum as a whole. I, for one, appreciate the many considered, astute, and thought inducing posts that many of the posters here(including the guys) make, as well as some that appear simple but have many far reaching ramifications.

Merry Xmas to you, and to all, and here's to a great 2011 for golfers and golfdom!

thanks 4 the reply damon..........i don't want anything to be 3rd graders level

all i ask is that when explained to me.....just englishize it...(there is a word) for you

its a great site and I want it 2 get better.....but the problem i see is we have the same same same people posting...i come on here and there r (ie) 125 people on line

25 members and 100 guests...........why is that?? i have no clue....why won'tmore people join and participate?.........ok give me 1 reason to join as a member

guests read all forums.....they can see all of brians videos on youtube

and if the choose they can purchase videos...so why join??? Now if the site

was more golf oriented.....more would join....lets talk grip....setup... yes sometimes we

do but not recently.....we are going to dr. level leaving those wanting a bachelors

behind......Brian is taking a different direction as far as he is concerned

he will be doing a lot of his things thru blogs....OK.....here are my thoughts

damon...............you be in charge of grip,setup, and alignment.

hardesty......... you be in charge of backswing, transition, downswing

steve k.......... you be in charge of putting

and chapterize things......the list is longer..i just named a few

then you can have chapter....on " the science of the swing" for advanced members

NOW we have covered everyone............we will have more people coming on wanting

to ask questions........anyway damon..they r my thoughts and only mine

i never want the site to move anywhere but Up....as well i dont' want ANYONE left behind.

happy holiday

h

 

[birdie_man]

So what you guys are saying is, to be a great instructor in the future, I'm gonna need 10,000 hours of teaching experience, a phd in biomechanics, a 30k trackman, 3d machine and maybe a white belt and some nice pants. And if I have time maybe a minor in psychology and human learning.

Maybe to be the best (maybe) or to be on The Cutting Edge.

They are compiling it all so that everyone can use the information, no?

I love it here ... .. GREAt forum..... BUT.. here is what I think...dotdotdot ( moredotsthanbirdie_man)... rant rant.. .......I like Brian and want the best for him......OK............thanks.
h

Howard you should drink some Nog-rum!

dotdotdot

Really though...

Maybe I am just comfortable with the forum because it suits me well enough.

But how intimidating can it be? You get to use a fake name! A fake name!

John_Piscopolis52
JimJohnWatson
PeterFramptonGolf
randythesavage
Playa_Brian
carol_galleyz
Steve Khatib

I dunno maybe I am wrong. I just don't get it.

I am not saying that in some way or ways it can't be better.

Your idea on advanced vs basic (or maybe theoretical vs practical/how to?) is interesting.

I presume it is pretty difficult to get to everyone who needs help, esp w all that is going on. Not saying it can't be better. Dunno.

Not sure I am too into many subforums but a few of em could be an idea to entertain.

 

[alexandjacob]

you are correct

Maybe to be the best (maybe) or to be on The Cutting Edge.

They are compiling it all so that everyone can use the information, no?





Howard you should drink some Nog-rum!

dotdotdot

Really though...

Maybe I am just comfortable with the forum because it suits me well enough.

But how intimidating can it be? You get to use a fake name! A fake name!

John_Piscopolis52
JimJohnWatson
PeterFramptonGolf
randythesavage
Playa_Brian
carol_galleyz
Steve Khatib

I dunno maybe I am wrong. I just don't get it.

I am not saying that in some way or ways it can't be better.

Your idea on advanced vs basic (or maybe theoretical vs practical/how to?) is interesting.

I presume it is pretty difficult to get to everyone who needs help, esp w all that is going on. Not saying it can't be better. Dunno.

Not sure I am too into many subforums but a few of em could be an idea to entertain.

well my friend.....you are correct...IT FITS YOU WELL...

and for that i am happy.....

 

[drewyallop]

why won't more people ... participate?

They haven't yet mastered the A&J art of elliptical obfuscation?

Drew

 

[alexandjacob]

exactly

They haven't yet mastered the A&J art of elliptical obfuscation?

Drew

thank you drew......i am glad you as well see the need for chapterizing

grip, setup,alignment....and then we would have chapter 4 elliptical obfuscation

and it will be important to have someone moderate that chapter who wont go

round and round.

have a great sunday

 

[peterjthomps]

From my feable mind i think A&J does make some points. Im not an instructor, just a hacker trying to learn as much as i can and improve my game. However with all the new info coming out from this forum, im not sure how it can be absorbed or messaged without visting Brain or one the other Manzella instructors. Am i missing something or just below 3rd grade level.

Luckily, in my case Damon is only an hour away, and when we thaw out up here i plan to go see him.

 

[ZAP]

All I can say is give them time to get it together. I think some people show up here and expect to be spoon fed and get free help with their swing/game. Brian and his crew working on 1.68 are doing this to help the game and make some money. To expect them to just give it away is both unfair and silly.

My hope with this post is not to offend anyone but to clarify my perspective on what this site is. The expectation for me is if I ask a question based on my lesson with Brian or one of the videos it should be answered. Beyond that I read here to help enhance my understanding of the information I have gathered from the videos and the lesson.

 

[Brian Manzella]

So what you guys are saying is, to be a great instructor in the future, I'm gonna need 10,000 hours of teaching experience, a phd in biomechanics, a 30k trackman, 3d machine and maybe a white belt and some nice pants. And if I have time maybe a minor in psychology and human learning.

Hell no.

I could teach ANY OF YOU to fix slicers, duck hookers, and beginners in a week, if we had enough test subjects.

That's not everybody, but it is a lot.

 

[alexandjacob]

actually

All I can say is give them time to get it together. I think some people show up here and expect to be spoon fed and get free help with their swing/game. Brian and his crew working on 1.68 are doing this to help the game and make some money. To expect them to just give it away is both unfair and silly.

My hope with this post is not to offend anyone but to clarify my perspective on what this site is. The expectation for me is if I ask a question based on my lesson with Brian or one of the videos it should be answered. Beyond that I read here to help enhance my understanding of the information I have gathered from the videos and the lesson.

you are correct eyeoffish.....i do expect Brian to give it away free....thats why i come here for free.....and while on the subject...Brian or his cowboys should do 1 lesson and then 1 free lesson.....charging 200 dollars is ludicrous....selling all those dvds making 1000of $......i expect free.....all of it.....you pay 200 to BRIAN then you go back and do it again....ANOTHER 200.....thats crazy......dvds cost about .50 to copy..and he sells it for 29.99.............you say giving it away is UNFAIR AND SILLY

don't you think its fair for Brian to share his knowledge....where people shared with him as he was coming up.....you think Ben Doyle charged him 200....not a chance

project 1.68..........should be distributed for FREE....but then again...if you add up
1.68............lets see....1+6+8=15....yes 15 people will benefit from it.....and 10/15
wont understand it.........

oh by the way.....have a happy sunday

 

[ZAP]

you are correct eyeoffish.....i do expect Brian to give it away free....thats why i come here for free.....and while on the subject...Brian or his cowboys should do 1 lesson and then 1 free lesson.....charging 200 dollars is ludicrous....selling all those dvds making 1000of $......i expect free.....all of it.....you pay 200 to BRIAN then you go back and do it again....ANOTHER 200.....thats crazy......dvds cost about .50 to copy..and he sells it for 29.99.............you say giving it away is UNFAIR AND SILLY

don't you think its fair for Brian to share his knowledge....where people shared with him as he was coming up.....you think Ben Doyle charged him 200....not a chance

project 1.68..........should be distributed for FREE....but then again...if you add up
1.68............lets see....1+6+8=15....yes 15 people will benefit from it.....and 10/15
wont understand it.........

oh by the way.....have a happy sunday

You sound cranky.

 

[alexandjacob]

nah

You sound cranky.

not cranky at all

75 degrees here in sarasota

tee time at 1:50

cranky??? on the tee on plan to CRANK-IT.....but not CRANKY

 

[ZAP]

not cranky at all

75 degrees here in sarasota

tee time at 1:50

cranky??? on the tee on plan to CRANK-IT.....but not CRANKY

Hit 'em well. It is 25 degrees here and no tee time in sight.

 

[Bonesy]

just another thread murdered by the ellipsis (...) assassin.

 

[mjstrong]

So what you guys are saying is, to be a great instructor in the future, I'm gonna need 10,000 hours of teaching experience, a phd in biomechanics, a 30k trackman, 3d machine and maybe a white belt and some nice pants. And if I have time maybe a minor in psychology and human learning.

Nope, but you should have an understanding of those concepts.

 

[alexandjacob]

bonesy

just another thread murdered by the ellipsis (...) assassin.

your a good man....except....looK what you wrote

ellipsis (...)................see yoU didn't think people woUld know what you meanT so you

added (...)..........................thats all i am saying....SOMETHING FOR EVERYONE

A&J