A Manzella First-A Video Question

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

Tom Bartlett

Administrator
The best way that I have seen to learn the feeling of the #3PP is to get to the top of your backswing and have a friend put the tip of their finger on the sweet spot. Then, slowly make a downswing and keep their finger on the sweet spot all the way to the ball. You will feel your #3 PP if you keep their finger on your club.

P.S. like the video question.
 
B

Bigwill

New
Tom Bartlett said:
The best way that I have seen to learn the feeling of the #3PP is to get to the top of your backswing and have a friend put the tip of their finger on the sweet spot. Then, slowly make a downswing and keep their finger on the sweet spot all the way to the ball. You will feel your #3 PP if you keep their finger on your club.

P.S. like the video question.
Click to expand...

Does the same apply if you have a stronger grip?
 
J

JeffM

New member
Shortgamer

I was looking at your swing video. I noticed that you were performing the equivalent of an OTT move in the sense that you were bringing your hands steeply down to the ball.

It is my understanding that a "correct" downswing starts with a hip shift-rotation move that shallows out the clubshaft plane and brings the hands towards the ball along an inside track. That means that the clubshaft should be behind the hands, and not above the hands.

See - http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/AnonymousGolferEls.jpg

Note that the clubshaft is behind Ernie Els hands, while the clubshaft is above the hands of the "anonymous golfer" (who is performing an OTT move). I therefore presume that one would feel "pressure" on the trigger finger throughout the downswing if the clubshaft is behind the hands.

I was looking at the Tom Tomasello videos, and I noted that he stated that the right wrist should only hinge back, and not upcock, in the backswing. Therefore, there should theoretically not be any downcocking right wrist action necessary if one avoids an OTT move that is due to starting the downswing with a right shoulder rotation that gets the clubshaft above the hands. The clubshaft should drop at the start of the downswing and end up behind the hands in the "correct" downswing action.

Jeff.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
there is no OTT move in his swing, just a steeper plane.

ANYWAY

You want to feel #3pp, i give you #3pp! ;)

Hit shots with your RIGHT THUMB COMPLETELY OFF THE CLUB! Report back.

Please note this is an old Hogan drill and might even pre-date him.
 
A

ajs

New
Jim Kobylinski said:
there is no OTT move in his swing, just a steeper plane.

ANYWAY

You want to feel #3pp, i give you #3pp! ;)

Hit shots with your RIGHT THUMB COMPLETELY OFF THE CLUB! Report back.

Please note this is an old Hogan drill and might even pre-date him.
Click to expand...

Great drill....Jim had me doing this during a lesson and whenever something goes wrong in my ballstriking i always find myself going back to this drill.

BTW-Great idea w/ the whole video question
 
P

puttmad

New
...

JeffMann said:
I was looking at the Tom Tomasello videos, and I noted that he stated that the right wrist should only hinge back, and not upcock, in the backswing.
Click to expand...

Jeff,
How does that work then? The hands are on the club facing each other, they move together. If you take your right hand off the grip at the top and then just flatten the wrist it still remains in a fully radially flexed position, i.e. matching the radially flexed position of the fully cocked left hand at the top..
Is there another way of doing it?......
 
J

JeffM

New member
Puttmad

I don't quite understand your point. I don't exactly know why you recommend taking the right wrist off the club and then flattening it. If I understand it correctly, you are looking to see the residual degree of radial deviation of the right wrist at the top - if one eiliminates the hinging. It should be slightly radially deviated - like it was at address. I think that both the left and right wrists are slightly radially deviated at address. The important thing is that the degree of radial deviation of the right wrist doesn't increase during the backswing (no inceased upcocking).

Tomasello states that in the backswing that the right wrist hinges back (with no right wrist upcocking) while the right elbow folds, so that the right palm is under the clubshaft at the end-backswing position, while the left wrist only upcocks in the backswing while the left forearm rotates causing the left wrist to pronate while it upcocks and that gets the left wrist to be flat at the end of the backswing.

It is my impression that Brian teaches the same thing - about keeping the right wrist hinge constant in the backswing with no right wrist upcocking.

Jeff.
 
Last edited:
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
Ya good question SG.

I'm still a little foggy myself.

I understand more how it comes into play down around impact....with that PP3 BEHIND the shaft. (always makes me think of the Ben Hogan video by the ocean)

I feel pressure on my left thumb more than anything at the start of the downswing.
 
P

PChandler

New
My Guess

Shortgamer

Good question. Until you get an answer from someone more knowledgable than me... In your video, I think at that point in you down swing where you are trying to feel the PP#3 it would be lag pressure against the face of the plane and not at the ball. If it were at the ball at that point, I think you would be lagging the hosel and not the sweet spot. At least that is my 15 capper guess.
 
golfbulldog

golfbulldog

New
Hogan drill photos




I love the photo ... from Leadbetter book "The Modern Fundamentals of Hogan"

I think from your answer it sound like you were trying to feel pp3 on the downswing by actively pushing pp3 against the shaft... if you are a hitter then that is correct... but a swinger should feel the shaft pushing against your pp3... and not your pp3 pushing against the shaft...

Now these are feels so no need for anybody to get too detailed about newton and equal and opposite forces....:)

if you do the drill and you do your current motion with ( i presume) active pushing/flip then you will feel the shaft move away from your pp3 - it feels unstable... your pivot needs to do more to stopp this. If you swing and do nothing active with your hands and arms ... just allow the pivot to move the arms/power package... then you sense pp3. You may have to do this in slow motion first and exaggerate it ( pretend to be sergio!) in slow motion.

Once you have sensed it then all you need to do is to get your pivot to do whatever it needs to do to MAINTAIN that degree of pp3 sensation AND stop the shaft from seperating from pp3

IMO at least. Did this drill today - works well and gives you feedback.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Never ever ever do anything with #3pp, it's just a "feel." If you try to use that feel to hit the ball you are going to have problems.

BTW, hitters use #1pp not #3.
 
P

puttmad

New
...

JeffMann said:
Puttmad

I don't quite understand your point. I don't exactly know why you recommend taking the right wrist off the club and then flattening it. If I understand it correctly, you are looking to see the residual degree of radial deviation of the right wrist at the top - if one eiliminates the hinging. It should be slightly radially deviated - like it was at address. I think that both the left and right wrists are slightly radially deviated at address.
Click to expand...

Sorry Jeff, not trying to be picky here, but your wrists are ulna deviated at address (see pic), not radially deviated. That's why I asked the question, because your wrists don't stay in ulna deviation throughout the backswing...if they did you would have no left wrist "cock"...
img7777a029.jpg
 
J

JeffM

New member
Puttmad

You are correct. The wrists are slightly ulnarly deviated in the address position.

I was incorrect when I stated that the wrists are radially deviated at address.

What I really meant to state is that when the right wrist is in a NEUTRAL or in a slight ular deviation position at address (which should happen if the arms hang vertically down from the shoulders), that there is often still a NATURAL angle between the radial border of the forearm and the radial border of the thumb metacarpal as soon as the clubshaft leaves the ground and the right hand starts to hinge back (neutrally), and that one should maintain that SAME angle during the backswing.

Interestingly, different golfers have varying degrees of angle between the radial border of the right thumb metacarpal and radial border of the forearm during the takeaway - depending on whether one has a long or short left thumb at address. See Luther Blacklock's "Lost Fundamentals of Hogan" at http://www.golfinternationalmag.com to see his argument about left thumb position - that a deep interlocking grip can predispose to a long left thumb, and that it affects the degree of natural wrist upcocking that occurs in the takeaway.

Jeff.
 
Last edited:
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Jim Kobylinski said:
Never ever ever do anything with #3pp, it's just a "feel." If you try to use that feel to hit the ball you are going to have problems.

BTW, hitters use #1pp not #3.
Click to expand...

Ok, let me edit. You can use #3 HOWEVER i don't reccomend it. You will have issues.

if you want to "right arm it" fine, go ahead. Just use pp #1.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top