A question for the Summit panes...Where should the swoosh be?

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golfdad

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Bear with me since I myself am trying to dumb down some concepts to my level, based on science or not, to get an idea of the current thinking on this subject...

I remember my kids learned to grip the club head side of the driver and made swoosh sound while swinging the "lighter" club. They were told to make the swoosh come out way in the front, couple feet after the impact position. If they did not do that, they were told they released the club too early. Every viewer of this site I suspect at one point or another has gone through this routine.

Then I read about force normalization, prominently discussed on this site. Correct me if I am mistaken, that concept means the speed is the highest when the force is normalized at impact. By definition, anything after the moment of highest speed should be lower speed, thus deceleration. To use the swoosh frame of thinking, should the swoosh be the loudest at impact then?

Please help me to make sense of these 2 entities.. Loudest swoosh at impact or after impact.

(I am asking this question from the perspective of trying to understand golf swing physics. I don't plan to buy or sell anything. I don't put down or endorse, just find things that I can relate to my kids who are learning this game. I prefer a discussion based on civil manners. I saw that Brian has written that he has prepared some replies to BLOW AWAY some crazy ideas. Well, I hope mine does not get blown away, just answered in a manner that one is proud that a 11 year old can read.

(sorry about the typo in the title)
 
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Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

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Hmm...and why should the highest speed be post-impact ? A given golfer in a given point of time is able to reach the speed X and no more. If we presume the peak happens after impact we must also presume that the clubhead hits the ball with some speed smaller than X.
Ergo - since the mass is the same - the energy passed to the ball will be lower and the ball will fly shorter.

Cheers
 
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golfdad

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That is a good question and actually my question, Dariusz :). I am not sure if you have tried this swoosh swing holding a club in reverse. For as far as I can remember, the prompt has been to unleash the loudest swoosh on the left side after the impact, aka, accelerating into the impact. No one so far has suggested to make the swoosh come out in between the feet. So does that mean the speed of the club is actually HIGHER after impact?
 
hp12c

hp12c

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golfdad said:
Bear with me since I myself am trying to dumb down some concepts to my level, based on science or not, to get an idea of the current thinking on this subject...

I remember my kids learned to grip the club head side of the driver and made swoosh sound while swinging the "lighter" club. They were told to make the swoosh come out way in the front, couple feet after the impact position. If they did not do that, they were told they released the club too early. Every viewer of this site I suspect at one point or another has gone through this routine.

Then I read about force normalization, prominently discussed on this site. Correct me if I am mistaken, that concept means the speed is the highest when the force is normalized at impact. By definition, anything after the moment of highest speed should be lower speed, thus deceleration. To use the swoosh frame of thinking, should the swoosh be the loudest at impact then?

Please help me to make sense of these 2 entities.. Loudest swoosh at impact or after impact.

(I am asking this question from the perspective of trying to understand golf swing physics. I don't plan to buy or sell anything. I don't put down or endorse, just find things that I can relate to my kids who are learning this game. I prefer a discussion based on civil manners. I saw that Brian has written that he has prepared some replies to BLOW AWAY some crazy ideas. Well, I hope mine does not get blown away, just answered in a manner that one is proud that a 11 year old can read.

(sorry about the typo in the title)
Click to expand...

I was told to do just that when I took my lesson, many years ago. When I watch golf on tv I hear a swoosh then the impact on the ball not the reverse.
 
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golfdad

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Thank you Mike. I saw this video one time and somehow his demo did not register. From 6:20 onwards, he went into this and indeed indicated that the max speed should be at impact and not later. It cleared up for me to a great extent.

One thing he said earlier about having certain speed for the backswing,,,I am not so sure about that,,,I think different tempos for different folks.

sonicgolfsystem1training.wmv

(actually i would have preferred a visual instead of an audio feedback. I think a sound amplitude diagram on a laptop showing me where the peak sound is relative to impact line will be more precise than listening to the elusive swoosh, which is probably part of the problem that some of us do not know where the swoosh really really is)

Anyway, thanks Mike!
 
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Hayes9801

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I think the answer lies both within physics and within the limitations of the human golfer....just based on my empirical observations and experience

Moe Norman used to say that the fastest part of the swing should be after impact. Part of that statement deals with human limitations. Most golfers trying to have the fastest part of the swing at impact will accelerate too early and have their top swing speed occur before impact. Moe wanted to be accelerating into the ball. Thus, in Moe's mind, the fastest part of the swing would occur after impact.

The other reason lies in Newton's second law of motion...force = Mass x Acceleration (not speed or velocity). If your swing is not accelerating (increasing speed) at impact, you will deliver less force to the ball. Impact with the ball will slow the clubhead down, preventing a faster speed after impact, but I think your goal needs to be moving the clubhead into the ball at an increasing rate of speed.

I know that this description will not pass strict scrutiny with physics enthusiasts. I hope that one will explain this more accurately in terms that a third grader (me) can understand.
 
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SteveT

Guest
Wear ear plugs when practicing your driver swings, and don't depend on dubious "swoosh" sounds.

It separates real from feel and hear too.
 
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birly-shirly

New
And when you've got your driver the right way round and are hitting balls, keep the headcover on so that you're not distracted by the feel of impact.

Unless of course you believe that learning follows feedback:confused:
 
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