about Japanese clubs

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tongzilla

tongzilla

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Jim Kobylinski said:
leek, I think the Internet has "gotten" to you. While some of the things you have said are true a lot are not. I am typing this from my phone so I can't go into much detail BUT miura RARELY forges irons for any oem anymore even thought they used too back in the day. Also there is no such thing as a forged r7 tp iron. Taylormade does have a set of forged r7 irons that are japan only right now. Again, don't let some propaganda machines on the net make you think all tour equiptment is some highly spec'd thing. In a lot of cases (not all obviously) they are simply modified off the rack stuff. Exceptions to this are one-offs for particular players and oems "tour line" such as tm TP line.
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whoa.

so when I buy a set of forged irons from Miura, they are NOT forged?

isn't that illegal?
 
R

Rifle

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Jim Kobylinski said:
leek, I think the Internet has "gotten" to you. While some of the things you have said are true a lot are not. I am typing this from my phone so I can't go into much detail BUT miura RARELY forges irons for any oem anymore even thought they used too back in the day. Also there is no such thing as a forged r7 tp iron. Taylormade does have a set of forged r7 irons that are japan only right now. Again, don't let some propaganda machines on the net make you think all tour equiptment is some highly spec'd thing. In a lot of cases (not all obviously) they are simply modified off the rack stuff. Exceptions to this are one-offs for particular players and oems "tour line" such as tm TP line.
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Quote from Tourspecgolf:

"Taylormade Japan, based on it's very popular R7 Forged iron of 2007 has released it's R7 TP Forged iron. This Tour Preferred iron is forged from soft S25C and is a compact, minimal offset head made for lower handicap players. The R7 TP Forged features a low to mid launch trajectory for maximum workability and a thin topline with very little offset for superb setup at address. The head shape was designed based on feedback from Japan tour professionals, looking for a thin sole and muscle back like control."
 
golfbulldog

golfbulldog

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tongzilla said:
whoa.

so when I buy a set of forged irons from Miura, they are NOT forged?

isn't that illegal?
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NO no no... stay calm!

What he said was tha Miura does not forge for OEM anymore .... it used to do alot of TM forgings under TM name....

Then Miura started to produce his own line a bit more aggressively and now only forges his own Miura irons.... so yours are Miura.... but the TM blades from 2006/07 are not...whereas some TM blades from 2003/04 were miura forged.

One suspects that if Tiger wants Mr Miura on the job then an agreement can/has been made for him!
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Rifle said:
Quote from Tourspecgolf:

"Taylormade Japan, based on it's very popular R7 Forged iron of 2007 has released it's R7 TP Forged iron. This Tour Preferred iron is forged from soft S25C and is a compact, minimal offset head made for lower handicap players. The R7 TP Forged features a low to mid launch trajectory for maximum workability and a thin topline with very little offset for superb setup at address. The head shape was designed based on feedback from Japan tour professionals, looking for a thin sole and muscle back like control."
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Welcome Rilfe!

You are 100% correct, the new R7 TP irons from Taylormade are indeed forged and are japan only currently. However, Leek is referring to the american cast version of the R7 TP irons. See his quote below:

Almost EVERY forged iron you see on tour is Japanese. The clubmakers have a select number of Japanese forging houses make the tour irons. In fact, when you see most tour Taylor Made R7 TPs, they are forged, and forged in Japan. The R7 TPs you can buy in the US are cast.
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I've bolded what i meant. Welcome and happy posting :)
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Leek said:
Someone asked about blueprinting. The tolerances on clubsand shafts are very broad. Most drivers have a lot more loft than stamped on them, most irons have lofts that are not accurate, the lies are not accurate and the shafts will vary widely in frequency (the measure of stiffness). Why? In order to meet market pressures, they are slapped together in China by people who are low paid assembly line workers and usually know nothing about golf or clubs. A noted exception is Ping. Their Tour clubs are the same thing we can buy, but of course they are cast and their irons are made in the US.

A great example is my friend Doug. Doug bought a set of $1000 irons made by one of the big names. They had Project X shafts too.
When they were checked, his lofts were way off, his lies varied from 2 degrees flatter than spec to 2 degrees more upright than spec. All in the same set! His shafts were supposed to be 5.5 (stiff). They ranged from 4.0 (ladies flex), through over 7.0 (XX stiff). All in the same set. He got them blueprinted. He immediately scored about 5 shots better per round. He paid HotStix $400 for the fitting and then bought new clubs from them. Total bill was $2,800 including Driver, 3 wood, hybrid and irons.

This lack of quality control has created a new type of equipment specialist- the blueprinter. Probably the most famous is HotStix, but there are many others. They take your clubs, fit you properly, then bend your loft and lie to your specs. They check your shafts for stiffness and repair or replace any shaft that is out of your proper spec. Usually they will also spine them. It's a lot of work. All tour sets are built this way.
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I haven't followed this thread.....

.....but how the hell do they get away with some of this stuff?

I find it frustrating to know all this........i.e. a driver with actual loft different than what is marked. (WTHelllllll)

I guess the manufacturers don't want to spend the $$$ and time (WHICH IS $$$ OF COURRRRRRRSE) to measure all the specs and sort sets eh...? (and then have to deal with the different headweights, etc.)

Your story about your buddy Bill is shocking and amazing BTW Leek..................5 strokes? I could believe it........inconsistencies in play itself and then how it affects how you practice too. (hook one club and slice another and how do you know what to work on in your swing?)

Buyer beware I guess eh buddy.

BTW I think I AM going to stick to some cast PINGs. Love cast clubs. DURABLE. (CAPS bold underlineddd)

:)

BTW any of you know anything about Feel Competitor irons? (gunmetal) I always thought they looked mint. (+ they cast and D5)
 
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L

Leek

New
Don't get me started on drivers!

Drivers from the major companies are almost always more loft than it says on the clubhead. Usually 1.5 - 2 degrees more loft. I believe they do this because the average golfer lets his ego pick his loft.Most players would be better off with 11, 12 even 14 degrees of loft, but do you think they would buy them?

My Cleveland driver that's marked 10.5 actually has 12 degrees of loft. That's actually pretty typical. If you try a driver marked 9.5, it's probably no less than 10.5 and more likely 11-11.5.

Ping will hand select your driver for you through their Ping WRX program. A guy I know recently wanted a hand picked 9.5 degree G10, and they got him one. It was marked 7.5.

The one constant in this seems to be Ping among the major brands. Their irons are made in Arizona,while their woods are made in China. I understand if you order through Ping WRX, they will deliver exactly the specs you request.

I recently bought a new driver from a component company, Geek Golf (amazing woods). I asked them to hand pick a 12 degree driver for me and it is 12 and even marked 12 degrees.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
211pro said:
...Tiger's irons have a swoosh, but they are Miuras, as are D Toms' Taylor Mades, etc. The big boys aren't playing what we play with...:D
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Again, no one can confirm Tiger's iron are made by Miura. It's probably become the biggest golf myth on the net.

David Toms did play at a time the 2005 TM Forged CBs and yes, some of that run were forged by Miura. In fact, i believe that was the last forgings that Miura did for taylormade. However DT also played the CAST R7 TP irons too.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Leek said:
Don't get me started on drivers!

Drivers from the major companies are almost always more loft than it says on the clubhead. Usually 1.5 - 2 degrees more loft. I believe they do this because the average golfer lets his ego pick his loft.Most players would be better off with 11, 12 even 14 degrees of loft, but do you think they would buy them?

My Cleveland driver that's marked 10.5 actually has 12 degrees of loft. That's actually pretty typical. If you try a driver marked 9.5, it's probably no less than 10.5 and more likely 11-11.5.

Ping will hand select your driver for you through their Ping WRX program. A guy I know recently wanted a hand picked 9.5 degree G10, and they got him one. It was marked 7.5.

The one constant in this seems to be Ping among the major brands. Their irons are made in Arizona,while their woods are made in China. I understand if you order through Ping WRX, they will deliver exactly the specs you request.

I recently bought a new driver from a component company, Geek Golf (amazing woods). I asked them to hand pick a 12 degree driver for me and it is 12 and even marked 12 degrees.
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Any competent component manufacturer can hand pick for BOTH face angle and loft. Geek Golf was created by former owner(?)/runner of Bang Golf. He has some amazing stuff and my club guy really likes his stuff.

Also to expand on Leek's post, not only is he correct but that also applies to FACE ANGLE. It's pretty much a +/- 2* on loft and face angle for most OEMs.
 
self-mastery

self-mastery

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I think that Fronesis's approach might be ideal for golfers wanting their clubs to meet a specific criteria. Who do you guys recommend in the SE to do this kind of work.
 
L

Leek

New
Jim, I recently bought a Geek Dot Com This! with a Matrix Ozik Xcon6 at 12 degrees of loft and 1/2 degree open. It was handpicked for tbor the loft and face angle at my request. This combination is the best driver I've ever hit- for me. It's high launching, very low spin, very straight, disclaimer- once again for my swing, runs when it lands etc.

I'm also pretty sure that if I bought a TM, Callaway, Ping etc. and had the ability to get it built to my specs with the shaft that fits my swing, I'd be just as happy. I think the difference is it's easier and no cost to get this done by Geek and a good clubfitter.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Leek said:
Jim, I recently bought a Geek Dot Com This! with a Matrix Ozik Xcon6 at 12 degrees of loft and 1/2 degree open. It was handpicked for tbor the loft and face angle at my request. This combination is the best driver I've ever hit- for me. It's high launching, very low spin, very straight, disclaimer- once again for my swing, runs when it lands etc.

I'm also pretty sure that if I bought a TM, Callaway, Ping etc. and had the ability to get it built to my specs with the shaft that fits my swing, I'd be just as happy. I think the difference is it's easier and no cost to get this done by Geek and a good clubfitter.
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I whole heartedly agree.
 
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