about the pivot center

[shootin4par]

when you rotate around the base of the spine pivot center, during the initial shift back onto the right side, isnt this moving the pivot center as well. so where/when is the pivot center established? is it after the intial shift?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Believe it or not....

The WHOLE SWING is around this center.

But it sure FEELS LIKE an early shift.

 

[dodger]

How do you prevent the club from going too far inside or around during this early shift? What feel should the arms have?

 

[Perfect Impact]

S4P: in another view of the pivot, there are two centers: one is the back of the base of the neck which remains in one place: the hips go sideways and swivel around that fixed point. The base of the spine moves in the backswing onto the right femur: AND THEN THE HIPS ROTATE AROUND THAT POINT. So the pivot at that point TURNS THE BODY in addition to swinging pendulum-like under the neck. And in the forward swing, the same thing occurs on the other hip: once the pendulum has swing the base of the spine to the left, the hips rotate around THAT femur.

For that reason its proponents call it the COMPOUND pivot.

Picture a capital A where the apex is fixed, and when its bottom swings sideways in one direction, it also TURNS on the bottom of the leg that led.

 

[Jared Willerson]

How do you prevent the club from going too far inside or around during this early shift? What feel should the arms have?

I thought the same thing, the way I see it, the bending right arm keeps the club from coming "too inside". JMO of course.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I thought the same thing, the way I see it, the bending right arm keeps the club from coming "too inside". JMO of course.

Bingo!

You need to bend your right arm sooner.

 

[Brian Manzella]

NEVER SAY NEVER!!!

It this biz, you can GET a student to do ANYTHING if you can teach.

Here is a SPINE CENTERED MANZELLA-STYLE PIVOT, with the golfer KEEPING HIS RIGHT ARM STRAIGHT and not going **too far inside** (*your words, not mine*).

http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzella/.Movies/mike90.m4v

 

[Jared Willerson]

That video is what I thought about last night in asking about extensor action and when to apply it in a Manzella style pivot.

I seem to lack the flexiblity of one Mike Finney, but I would like my swing to "look" as polished, extended and powerful as his.

 

[Jared Willerson]

another question

Mr. Finney is not employing a "lagging clubhead takeaway" in this particular swing or in the others that I have seen, from what I can tell.

However, he isn't really using an early wrist set either, but he does get the right wrist bent back and the left wrist flat early in the swing. What kind of "start-up/takeaway" is this? Just trying too learn as much as I can.

 

[Brian Manzella]

How about 'lil Torm...

Tom Bartlett 1990:

http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzella/.Movies/tom1990.mov

 

[Spike]

How do you prevent the club from going too far inside or around during this early shift? What feel should the arms have?

I use a slight extensor action using PP#1 during the takeaway.

 

[Spike]

Pivot Center or Centers

Brian,

I find that when I use the base of the spine pivot center in the backswing, shifting (laterally) is kept at a minimum.

However, in the downswing the center "changes" (don't want to use the word shift) to the right hip so the left hip can begin it's clearance while the axis tilt maintains it's angle. Then the center of follow through becomes the left hip for the right side to complete its rotation into finish.

If doing a forward press first, the sequence of centers would be;

forward press = right hip center
takeaway to backswing = base of spine center
downswing = right hip center
followthrough to finish = left hip center

 

[blehnhard]

TSP

Looks like Tom B is using the Turned Shoulder Plane for the downswing. Also, look a the shadow of the shaft when the clubshaft is parallel to the ground in the downswing - covers the ball.

Bruce

 

[shootin4par]

thank you guys for clearing this up for me,
and brian in your live chat, my favorite part was where you quoted homer and said "train eht pivot first" that is a very reassuring piece of advice" once the pivt is trained it should be esier for the hands to get where they need to go.

 

[dodger]

Thanks for this thread, played yesterday and hit the ball extremely well focusing on pivot and extensor action. The video showing the straight right arm in the takeaway was a great point made by Brian, cleared the fog so to speak. If the right arm remains extended in the takeaway, the pivot cannot make it go too inside. With extensor action, the actions of the pivot seem to influence the club path much less on the backswing. Reread the pivot article and focus on extensor = boom off the tee.

 

[shootin4par]

Thanks for this thread, played yesterday and hit the ball extremely well focusing on pivot and extensor action. The video showing the straight right arm in the takeaway was a great point made by Brian, cleared the fog so to speak. If the right arm remains extended in the takeaway, the pivot cannot make it go too inside. With extensor action, the actions of the pivot seem to influence the club path much less on the backswing. Reread the pivot article and focus on extensor = boom off the tee.

which video showing straight right arm?

 

[Brian Manzella]

which video showing straight right arm?

These two, Neil:


http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzella/.Movies/mike90.m4v
http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzella/.Movies/tom1990.m4v

 

[shootin4par]

These two, Neil:


http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzella/.Movies/mike90.m4v
http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzella/.Movies/tom1990.m4v

thanks bman, will check them out when I get home