Across the line vs "Across the line"

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Tophdad

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Hi All,

We know that if you are across the line at the top, you need to make a move to shallow out the club before you "go to the ball."

I am wondering if it matters how you get across the line. Some people do it just by under-rotating the left arm wedge. Others, and I think I am in this group, have a fairly flexible torso and rotate their shoulders well over 90 degrees in the back swing - with the result being the club looks across the line. (And I suppose you could have a bit of both going on).

My question is what are the implications for someone who gets "across the line" because of a large amount of shoulder roation?
 
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art

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Tophdad said:
Hi All,

We know that if you are across the line at the top, you need to make a move to shallow out the club before you "go to the ball."

I am wondering if it matters how you get across the line. Some people do it just by under-rotating the left arm wedge. Others, and I think I am in this group, have a fairly flexible torso and rotate their shoulders well over 90 degrees in the back swing - with the result being the club looks across the line. (And I suppose you could have a bit of both going on).

My question is what are the implications for someone who gets "across the line" because of a large amount of shoulder roation?
Click to expand...

Dear Tophdad,

The human body has about 1/3 the weight below the belly button, and about 2/3 above. When a golfer assumes a set-up/golf swing forward bend, this 2/3 upper body (and head, arms etc.) create a MAJOR challenge to dynamic stability of the total body, as the club head, arms, shoulders etc (angularly) accelerate until impact.

To 'recross the line' during the early part of the downswing places the shoulders and upper body/torso and their associated instantaneous masses and axes of rotation in 3D locations that make it extremely difficult to generate and maintain POSITIVE dynamic stability margins.

So, IMO, getting the club back to parallel with the target line should be done at the latest during transition, BUT preferably without significantly affecting the shoulder's normal angular position BEFORE the down swing begins.

Please note the "IMO", as data from integrated and synchronized testing with force plates, 3D systems, cameras and a launch monitor
will be required to turn these hypotheses into verified scientific facts. The work to date has 'analytically' connected these elements from many different and independent research activities, which I believe indicate the trends noted above.

Please let us know the results of any of your tests.

Sincerely,
Art
 
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SteveT

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Tophdad said:
.... I think I ...., have a fairly flexible torso and rotate their shoulders well over 90 degrees in the back swing - with the result being the club looks across the line. (And I suppose you could have a bit of both going on).

My question is what are the implications for someone who gets "across the line" because of a large amount of shoulder roation?
Click to expand...

You may blame the "across the line" because of your 90º+ shoulder rotation back, but what are your hips doing... and what about your hips, legs and feet? Are your hips, legs and feet contributing to the over-rotation too?

IOW, what is your X-factor differential between your shoulders and hips at reversal into the downswing... 25º.. 35º.. 45º.. or more???

Also, what do you feeel that predominantly stops your backswing shoulder rotation... what locks up first?

Have you tried to restrict your shoulder rotation to avoid going "across the line" with say a 7/8ths backswing?

I prefer clarifying questions to guessing blindly or making grand generalizations....!!!
 
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Tophdad

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Art,

Thanks so much for your reply. That is serious food for thought. It also supplements (and is consistent with) advice I've received in the past. I'll take those ideas to the tee and get back to you.

Steve,

Appreciate your input. My hips, if anything, don't turn enough. But now that I think about it, I am wondering if an overly steep shoulder turn would put you across the line.

Whatever the case, I'm gonna find a mirror and work on getting to a better top of the swing position. Whatever contributes to me being inside-steep just blows and gots to go.
 
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jdswets

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Would a left hand grip on the weaker end of the scale cause a under rotated left arm wedge causing an across the line backswing?
 
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