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Archie Swivel

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I went through a rough couple weeks fighting the notorious random shanks, a/k/a el hoselo. I'd pure a 3-iron 230 yards, hit a couple pushes or pulls, then top it all off with a nice demoralizing shank. I repeated this process for seemingly 30 buckets of range ball over the course of 3 weeks--alway trying to make sure I squared the clubface back with a flat left wrist at impact and didn't come over the top. And just when I was ready to give it all up and go back to tennis, I started addressing the ball toward the toe of my club. Two large buckets a day for 3 days now and only two shanks--both on half half wedges wherein I was working on maximizing clubhead lag on 40-yard punch shots. I believe my weight is evenly distributed at address and is transferred to the inside of my right heel on the backswing. Obviously I move ballward at some point in the swing, but I don't know why. For now I am going to keep addressing the ball off the toe, but I am looking for a permanent panacea. Also, as a collateral matter, why might I be having trouble lagging the clubhead on half wedges?

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rwh

rwh

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quote:Originally posted by Archie Swivel

Mizuno,

So at adjusted address, do you have the ball off the toe?

Arch
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At impact fix, the Clubhead is off the ground. When you sole the Clubhead, it moves in slightly toward you and the ball appears more toward the toe. This is most easily seen with the ball teed up for a driver.
 
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MizunoJoe

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Arch,

By "normal" address, I meant "adjusted" address. You are supposed to go from impact fix to adjusted address. I'm one of those guys who(probably inadvisedly) assumes he can start at adjusted address, without going through the preliminary address and impact fix steps. From experience I know how much toward the toe to position the ball so that at impact fix, it would be on the sweet spot.

rwh added the explanation, which I omitted, of WHY the ball is toward the toe in the adjusted position.
 
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matt

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It does little good to sole the club with the ball "toward the toe" if your wrists are going to be higher at impact.

You address towards the toe because the wrists are kept at the same height. That's the whole point - to establish and maintain the correct height of the flat left wrist at impact - not to simply position the ball 'off the toe' of the club.
 
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MizunoJoe

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It doesn't matter how high your hands are at impact, if you go to impact fix, and then to adjusted address position with the sole grounded, the ball will move away from the sweetspot toward the toe.
 
EdStraker

EdStraker

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Mizuno Joe's explanation is correct. If you initially line up the clubhead's sweetspot with the ball, the ball will be towards the toe of the club after you sole the club. So the higher the ball is teed, the more towards the toe the ball will be after soling the club.
 
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Archie Swivel

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I am going to humble myself and admit that I'm not sure I've really got the terminology of 'impact fix' down. I normally would deduce that you are mimicing impact position after initial address but before you return to adjusted address. But from reading these responses, the clubhead is for some reason hovering over the ball at impact fix. So give me the dunce cap for asking the board what impact fix really is. And for whatever reason, since I posted this topic, I've still been striking the ball great when I sole the club with the ball just off the toe.

Arch
 
rwh

rwh

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quote:Originally posted by Archie Swivel

I am going to humble myself and admit that I'm not sure I've really got the terminology of 'impact fix' down. I normally would deduce that you are mimicing impact position after initial address but before you return to adjusted address. But from reading these responses, the clubhead is for some reason hovering over the ball at impact fix. So give me the dunce cap for asking the board what impact fix really is. And for whatever reason, since I posted this topic, I've still been striking the ball great when I sole the club with the ball just off the toe.

Arch
Click to expand...

Essentially, Impact Fix is</u> impact, including the Clubhead being off the ground. As Matt was pointing out, Fix is not some causal, "sort of close" exercise. It is the "exact" preview of the relationship of every single component, i.e., where you want to be at impact [TGM, Chapter 7-8, page 97]. So precise is this Secion of the Stroke that it is here where Homer suggested the grip be taken. It would seem Homer thought Fix pretty darn important, yet, I've never known a professional tour player to actually use it. If anyone knows why this is so, I would be interested to learn.
 
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Triad

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Good question. My only guess is that, as Mr. Doyle says " At first everything you do is 'not-aumatic', you have to perfect it until it becomes 'automatic'."

I am guessing that truly good golfers have developed their set-up, alignment etc. to such a refined degree that visual references and feel of distance to the ball can confirm their compliance with impact fix alignments.

Those of us who have not yet developed this skill must use conscious impact fix alignments as our guide.

I will freely admit that I sometimes skip this, to my disadvantage.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
It is pretty important to actually be able to 'pose' this position (impact) very correctly.

Most people have no idea there is a difference between address and impact.
 
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matt

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quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

It doesn't matter how high your hands are at impact, if you go to impact fix, and then to adjusted address position with the sole grounded, the ball will move away from the sweetspot toward the toe.
Click to expand...

That's the whole point, guys. The purpose of the address routine is to establish the correct impact conditions. That includes the height of the hands as determined by an on-center sweetspot at impact. But it is only when you maintain your hands at their impact height that the club correctly soles with the ball toward the toe!

You address the ball at fix with the hands in their impact position and the sole of the club off the ground. Then, like the book says, you hold your wrists at that height and let the clubhead drop to the ground. When it falls to the ground, the ball now is positioned toward the toe. The hands don't change their height, even if you go back to adjusted address.

Just putting the ball off the toe at adjusted address doesn't mean that you have automatically established the correct height for the hands at impact! And I assure you that it is absolutely possible to drop the clubhead and the hands after you have lined up the sweetspot at fix!

The egg - proper hand height as determined by the required sweet spot impact alignment - comes first. Then, the chicken - the ball that is positioned toward the toe of the "dropped" clubhead.
 
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Archie Swivel

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If impact fix is an "exact preview" of "every single component", are your hips opened to the target during impact fix as they would be at actual impact?
 
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matt

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quote:Originally posted by Archie Swivel

If impact fix is an "exact preview" of "every single component", are your hips opened to the target during impact fix as they would be at actual impact?
Click to expand...

EVERYTHING is the same as at actual Impact.
 
H

holenone

Banned
quote:Originally posted by matt

quote:Originally posted by Archie Swivel

If impact fix is an "exact preview" of "every single component", are your hips opened to the target during impact fix as they would be at actual impact?
Click to expand...

EVERYTHING is the same as at actual Impact.
Click to expand...

How about the feet? Should they be the same? I mean flat on the gorund? Or maybe should they be up? At least the right one?
 
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MizunoJoe

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rwh,

There are several reasons why you don't see impact fix on tour, some good and some not so good. First, very few tour players know what impact fix is, which is a pretty good reason. Another good one, assuming they DO know, is that it's very difficult to do for two reasons - First, how can you know EXACTLY where everything is since you are trying to pose a position that's passed through dynamically? And secondly, even if you knew exactly, how do you do it without risking touching the ball? After all the EXACT position would REQUIRE ball/club contact.

And a not-so-good reason is that most players wouldn't do anything so unorthodox looking. But, I have heard eyewitness accounts that Clampett, in fact, did do impact fixes early in his career.
 
A

Archie Swivel

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quote:Originally posted by matt

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

It doesn't matter how high your hands are at impact, if you go to impact fix, and then to adjusted address position with the sole grounded, the ball will move away from the sweetspot toward the toe.
Click to expand...

That's the whole point, guys. The purpose of the address routine is to establish the correct impact conditions. That includes the height of the hands as determined by an on-center sweetspot at impact. But it is only when you maintain your hands at their impact height that the club correctly soles with the ball toward the toe!

You address the ball at fix with the hands in their impact position and the sole of the club off the ground. Then, like the book says, you hold your wrists at that height and let the clubhead drop to the ground. When it falls to the ground, the ball now is positioned toward the toe. The hands don't change their height, even if you go back to adjusted address.

Just putting the ball off the toe at adjusted address doesn't mean that you have automatically established the correct height for the hands at impact! And I assure you that it is absolutely possible to drop the clubhead and the hands after you have lined up the sweetspot at fix!

The egg - proper hand height as determined by the required sweet spot impact alignment - comes first. Then, the chicken - the ball that is positioned toward the toe of the "dropped" clubhead.
Click to expand...

I guess I have always judged "proper hand height" by pointing the butt of the club at my belt buckle and by being a "tip-of-pinkie-to-tip-of-thumb" distance from the ball. So if I address the ball with a slightly bent left wrist, butt of club pointed to my buckle, proper distance away, and ball just slightly off the toe I can bypass the process of establishing impact fix, right?
 
rwh

rwh

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quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

rwh,

There are several reasons why you don't see impact fix on tour, some good and some not so good. First, very few tour players know what impact fix is, which is a pretty good reason. Another good one, assuming they DO know, is that it's very difficult to do for two reasons - First, how can you know EXACTLY where everything is since you are trying to pose a position that's passed through dynamically? And secondly, even if you knew exactly, how do you do it without risking touching the ball? After all the EXACT position would REQUIRE ball/club contact.

And a not-so-good reason is that most players wouldn't do anything so unorthodox looking. But, I have heard eyewitness accounts that Clampett, in fact, did do impact fixes early in his career.
Click to expand...

Joe,

You bring up an interesting point: Where does one stand at impact fix? Couldn't it be done a few inches to the side of the ball?
 
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