another hack honing his skills on trackman....(plus launch angle graphic p3).

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birly-shirly

New
I wasn't really asking about shaft bending, so I suppose the answer is dynamic loft.

But if you're happier that a complete answer would cover both, then of course I'd be interested in the answer that you think is more complete.

I appreciate though that I'm asking for guesstimates - I'm not looking for nano-scale accuracy. But, big picture wise, I'm interested in his likely figures to take that sort of divot, and the extent to which the bounce on his wedge might be in play.

To be honest, I was a wee bit surprised to hear that he was launching a 54* wedge at 30*. Is that typical at that sort of distance?

Hopefully that gives you an idea of where I'm coming from.
 
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niblick1

New
How about Actual Ball Flight Rules and Ball Flight Guesstimates?

Want to know "shaft lean" and dynamic loft.....
 
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Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
IMO, old and new are perfect descriptions because the issue is that yesteryear people believed that clubpath is responsible for initial direction and face angle for shaping while, in reality, it is different but we know it thanks to science that was not available before. Hence old and new (era).

Cheers
 
Michael Finney

Michael Finney

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birly-shirly said:
I wasn't really asking about shaft bending, so I suppose the answer is dynamic loft.

But if you're happier that a complete answer would cover both, then of course I'd be interested in the answer that you think is more complete.

I appreciate though that I'm asking for guesstimates - I'm not looking for nano-scale accuracy. But, big picture wise, I'm interested in his likely figures to take that sort of divot, and the extent to which the bounce on his wedge might be in play.

To be honest, I was a wee bit surprised to hear that he was launching a 54* wedge at 30*. Is that typical at that sort of distance?

Hopefully that gives you an idea of where I'm coming from.
Click to expand...

Here's a guess at where the 24* went on Luke Donald's wedge shot (and the two guys making the guess are in a position to know):

Quick guess:



Shaft lean: 6 deg

=> spinloft = 54-6 deg = 48 deg



Ball launches at .7 times the spin loft (33.6 deg)



Meaning if LA is 30 deg, his attack angle is -3.6 deg
 
Michael Finney

Michael Finney

New
you can break shaft lean down into at least two components - handle LEAN and club head LEAD - each will affect the loft

you can spend hours talking about "why 70%" on a relatively lofted strike at a certain club head speed - the discussion will involve friction, vertical gear effect, ball type, sound, non-elastic collisions, and many other things way out of my pay grade
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
This is a bit easier to follow:

30degrees.jpg
 
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savydan

New
Brian,

There's a typo in the pink statement:

Should be:

45* - (-5) = 50

Spin Loft = DL minus AoA; subtracting a negative is like adding a positive
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Not a typo...

I don't know any other way to say it.

You have 45° of UP and 5° of down and the DIFFERENCE is 50°.

and....TrackMan calls 5 degrees down -5°



tough one
 
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puttmaster

New
Brian Manzella said:
Not a typo...

I don't know any other way to say it.

You have 45° of UP and 5° of down and the DIFFERENCE is 50°.

and....TrackMan calls 5 degrees down -5°



tough one
Click to expand...

Brian -- Dan is just saying that in the mathematical formula (in pink) that the "+" sign should be a "-" sign. That is: 45* minus -5* = 50*. (In other words, subtracting a negative number is the same as adding a positive number.)
 
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birly-shirly

New
Thanks Mike and Brian

My takeaways

- the 70% face angle influence (rather than 100% as sometimes simplified) is a small issue on left/right starting direction - but a big issue on launch angle, where you have high spin loft.

- 5* delofting due to vertical impact relative to CoG is greater than I'd appreciated.

Thanks again
 
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Nitro7

New
puttmaster said:
Brian -- Dan is just saying that in the mathematical formula (in pink) that the "+" sign should be a "-" sign. That is: 45* minus -5* = 50*. (In other words, subtracting a negative number is the same as adding a positive number.)
Click to expand...

BM explained it in post #30.

45 degree dynamic loft along with (+) a negative 5 degree angle of attack equals 50 degree spin loft.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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SteveT

Guest
How do you determine the 50º Delivered Loft when the Static Loft is 54º ... and the AofA is 5º..??

Shouldn't it be 49º Delivered Loft.. :confused:
 
ZAP

ZAP

New
The spin loft total was not really intended to be "math" in the picture. At least I don't see it as that. Had the angle of attack been positive then the spin lift wound have been less. Maybe it should say "the quantity of degrees between the angle of attack and the dynamic loft" or something like that. All I know for sure is the picture really helps.
 
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