Are we being fooled a bit by 'tour' greens?

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jbrunk

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I watch a ton of PGA golf and focus much of my attention on putting strokes. It seems to me that no matter the stroke, these guys get the ball rolling perfectly immediately. Now, I have been playing around with different techniques trying to get the ball rolling better and nothing works as well as the 'pure pendulum' stroke (bend the right wrist back and straighten it through). But I see all these tour players rolling it well in various methods.

Am I being fooled by the crazy fast and true tour greens?

If I take it 'straight back and straight through' or forward press it or any other technique, that ball is bouncing and skidding like crazy.
 
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Damon Lucas

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Jbrunk, A bit....Tour greens being faster, smoother, having less grass, definitely helps. Other factors would include their proficiency, and time spent practicing and playing. Add being well fitted and you have the reason somewhere in there. Most off the rack putters have about 4 degrees of loft which will, when coupled with notions of release, or hitting, or bad mechanics, cause issues.

Start by getting the loft on your putter sorted, position the ball just forward of the bottom of your stroke, and make a normal good rhythm stroke and see what happens!
 
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GaryC_47

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jbrunk said:
Am I being fooled by the crazy fast and true tour greens?

If I take it 'straight back and straight through' or forward press it or any other technique, that ball is bouncing and skidding like crazy.
Click to expand...

It's quite possible that the loft on your putter is not appropriate for your stroke and/or your typical greens.
 
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cwdlaw223

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Check out AimPoint and an Edel putter if you really want to take your putting to the next level. The tour pros get much better greens. They'll roll those greens without regard to killing the grass for a week. Must give superintendents fits after they leave.

The PGA also dries out fairways if they can. Marketing drivers viewership and distance is part of marketing. People want to see what tey can't do regardless of any behind the scenes magic. I'm getting jaded watching golf.
 
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jonesadrock

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I think the speed is the most important factor. Much shorter backswing length to move the ball similar distances, at least compared to most municipal courses. This is one area my unqualified eye thinks is much easier on a tour-prepped green. Getting the speed and break is a different story. Getting a truer roll: 6 inch backswing > 1 foot backswing.
 
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jbrunk

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Damon Lucas said:
Jbrunk, A bit....Tour greens being faster, smoother, having less grass, definitely helps. Other factors would include their proficiency, and time spent practicing and playing. Add being well fitted and you have the reason somewhere in there. Most off the rack putters have about 4 degrees of loft which will, when coupled with notions of release, or hitting, or bad mechanics, cause issues.

Start by getting the loft on your putter sorted, position the ball just forward of the bottom of your stroke, and make a normal good rhythm stroke and see what happens!
Click to expand...

Thanks Damon. Do you have a good tip to find the low point of the stroke?
 
johnnymarlboro

johnnymarlboro

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It really depends on your stroke and how smooth the greens you play on are. Mickelson has like 6° but a ton of forward press. Zach Johnson has no loft but has his hands level with or slightly behind the ball. I'm starting to like less loft more and more.
 
mgranato

mgranato

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Damon Lucas said:
Jbrunk, A bit....Tour greens being faster, smoother, having less grass, definitely helps.
Click to expand...

I've heard the tour pro at our club say this a couple times. What exactly does it mean? When considering the budgets of the courses they play on, I'm sure it's not a muni's definition of less grass. Is it that the greens are that close to the "edge" in terms of starving/dying?
 
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Jared Willerson

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Mike, IMO, that is what they are saying. I got a chance to play a course right before a Nationwide event in Chattanooga last year. The roll on those greens were pure and the folks I played with said they would only roll better as the week went on.

I made more putts than ever that day. While speed was a big deal, the ability to pick a line and trust that it would stay there really gave me a lot of confidence.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Jared Willerson said:
Mike, IMO, that is what they are saying. I got a chance to play a course right before a Nationwide event in Chattanooga last year. The roll on those greens were pure and the folks I played with said they would only roll better as the week went on.

I made more putts than ever that day. While speed was a big deal, the ability to pick a line and trust that it would stay there really gave me a lot of confidence.
Click to expand...

I've actually noticed (and made a post on it a while ago) that playing a course either right before or right after a tour event (pga/nationwide/hooters/etc) you will tend to drive it further and shoot it lower due to the fairway/green conditions.
 
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Damon Lucas

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mgranato said:
I've heard the tour pro at our club say this a couple times. What exactly does it mean? When considering the budgets of the courses they play on, I'm sure it's not a muni's definition of less grass. Is it that the greens are that close to the "edge" in terms of starving/dying?
Click to expand...

Correct! Less influence from the grass, break is now mostly influenced by slope and speed.
 
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jbrunk

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Putting analysis from today:

My Cameron Putter has 6 degrees of loft (had no idea)
I am hitting up 7.8 degrees plus the 6 for a launch of 13.8. (No wonder its bouncing)
Path is out to in 5.8 degrees (feels to me like I take it back inside)
Face rotation is minimal 1.1 deg open bs, 1.0 open ds ( I am basically cutting the putt)
Impact is consistenly near the toe (Northwest quadrant of the face)
I am aimed significantly left of what I think


So, I have to either change my putter or my technique and setup...or both.


Any thoughts from the experts?
 
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