Arms Setup Question
- Thread starter natep
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Yuck!
Good question. This postion was hammered into my skull as a junior. In fact, I was shown the b&w pic that the drawing was based on again and again. Yet I have seldom seen the best do this and in fact I do not think Hogan did it. Seems like a recipe for swiping it to the inside and getting super-duper underplane. Ball doesn't care, right? I think Carl Lohren was adamant about this postion, as in VERBOTEN! I think he advocated a right arms that was relatively straight and shoulders that were open to the target line. The more I pour over old instruction books the more I find references to a simplistic understanding of "d-plane" in the sense that a certain degree of "swinging left" is required. I recently saw that in the Toski/Flick/Kostis tome. Toski even mention that if took notice of a par-3 tee box at a tour event the divots trend left! I think Lohren's adherence to an "open" set-up is the same kind of deal.
Good question. This postion was hammered into my skull as a junior. In fact, I was shown the b&w pic that the drawing was based on again and again. Yet I have seldom seen the best do this and in fact I do not think Hogan did it. Seems like a recipe for swiping it to the inside and getting super-duper underplane. Ball doesn't care, right? I think Carl Lohren was adamant about this postion, as in VERBOTEN! I think he advocated a right arms that was relatively straight and shoulders that were open to the target line. The more I pour over old instruction books the more I find references to a simplistic understanding of "d-plane" in the sense that a certain degree of "swinging left" is required. I recently saw that in the Toski/Flick/Kostis tome. Toski even mention that if took notice of a par-3 tee box at a tour event the divots trend left! I think Lohren's adherence to an "open" set-up is the same kind of deal.
natep
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What do you mean?
The reason I'm asking is because I'm looking at a TW sequence from his book (2001) with an overhead, dtl, and face-on view and he's got rightward tilt and open shoulders, and both arms are straight. The arms are also the same height, so that you couldnt stick a shaft in between them like the Hogan pic.
How "rightward" is his tilt? How open are his shoulders?
Tilt isn't the ONLY thing by any means, but it's the BIG thing. Tilting forward opens the shoulders. Tilting back closes them. This basic difference is also what we see at impact. Hence why rightward tilt at impact is so vital. But there are ways to manipulate this by purposefully bending the right elbow, or changing the position of the hands. Further back the hands are the more open the shoulders will be, further ahead you put them the more closed the shoulders will be. That assumes relatively straight arms at the setup though.
Again, that same relationship of where the position of the hands are and purposeful bend in the right elbow has similar implications to impact.
natep
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[media]http://dc218.4shared.com/img/18edmUPC/s7/0.8479049286996402/tw1.bmp[/media]
[media]http://dc198.4shared.com/img/0h889l44/s7/0.09098116393358435/tw2.bmp[/media]
[media]http://dc199.4shared.com/img/QnXSojen/s7/0.8886882567384432/tw3.bmp[/media]
How would these different setups (Woods vs. Hogan drawing) affect the swing?
I understand that the open shoulders could favor a fade ballflight, and vice-versa, but does one setup favor a turned shoulder plane swing vs. an elbow plane swing, for example?
[media]http://dc198.4shared.com/img/0h889l44/s7/0.09098116393358435/tw2.bmp[/media]
[media]http://dc199.4shared.com/img/QnXSojen/s7/0.8886882567384432/tw3.bmp[/media]
How would these different setups (Woods vs. Hogan drawing) affect the swing?
I understand that the open shoulders could favor a fade ballflight, and vice-versa, but does one setup favor a turned shoulder plane swing vs. an elbow plane swing, for example?
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His hands are ever so slightly back relative to his left shoulder. It's not a straight line from left shoulder to clubhead. That will open the shoulders up a tad so long as the clubhead stays where it is. Also, his right elbow is VERY slightly closer to his body than his left. (As the ball gets placed further back in the stance, the shoulders will tend to close more... that's right even ball position plays a part in this look)
All very small variances as he was in a very "neutral" position here. All I'm saying is if you want the bent right elbow look of the illustration... tilt! It's either that or manufacture a position with your arms that will have 0 relevancy to impact.
All very small variances as he was in a very "neutral" position here. All I'm saying is if you want the bent right elbow look of the illustration... tilt! It's either that or manufacture a position with your arms that will have 0 relevancy to impact.
Hands ahead with a lower right elbow will undoubtedly promote a flat takeaway. From there on it's really anyone's guess what they'll do with it. Some people reroute to the top and actually get steep. Others continue on the flat inside plane all the way to the top.
Position of the right elbow through the entire swing is what really makes for a flat or steep plane. The further lower the right elbow is under the left, the flatter the swing will be at that point.
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