ball flight question

[Richie3Jack]

I was thinking about this today.

Let's say there is no wind and the golf ball is in tact and round.

Is there *any* way for the golf ball to curve two different ways in a shot.

Meaning, is there any way....sans wind or sans bad golf ball...that a ball could fade and then draw or vice versa?





3JACK

 

[spktho]

Interesting question.

I've hit a couple of those shots on the course and a bunch at the range in calm conditions. I have always just thought it was a bad ball, grass, dirt or water on the club face.

 

[greenfree]

I was thinking about this today.

Let's say there is no wind and the golf ball is in tact and round.

Is there *any* way for the golf ball to curve two different ways in a shot.

Meaning, is there any way....sans wind or sans bad golf ball...that a ball could fade and then draw or vice versa?





3JACK

Isn't the game hard enough for you with just one curve...LOL

 

[holeout]

I was thinking about this today.

Let's say there is no wind and the golf ball is in tact and round.

Is there *any* way for the golf ball to curve two different ways in a shot.

Meaning, is there any way....sans wind or sans bad golf ball...that a ball could fade and then draw or vice versa?





3JACK

No.

 

[ej20]

Without wind,yes.Without air resistance,no.

I don't think you could work the ball playing on the moon.

 

[Richie3Jack]

Interesting question.

I've hit a couple of those shots on the course and a bunch at the range in calm conditions. I have always just thought it was a bad ball, grass, dirt or water on the club face.

That's why I asked the question. I was on the range and I usually hit a couple of those shots per range session. I usually chalk it up to a bad golf ball, but wanted to see if I could make sure that was the case.

There's another teacher on the internet that talks about the 'knucklefade' which allegedly starts with a draw spin, but fades. I've hit that type of shot a million times but often wondered if that was an optical illusion or possible.




3JACK

 

[greenfree]

How would the curve change from draw to fade with a good ball and no crazy wind affecting the ball flight? Does anyone know? is it even possible.

 

[mgranato]

Are we talking about the spin axis tilting from say left-to-right, and then mid flight, tilting right-to-left without any outside influence?

 

[Ringer]

I was thinking about this today.

Let's say there is no wind and the golf ball is in tact and round.

Is there *any* way for the golf ball to curve two different ways in a shot.

Meaning, is there any way....sans wind or sans bad golf ball...that a ball could fade and then draw or vice versa?





3JACK

Yes I believe there is and I was going to ask about it tomorrow at the summit.

Imbalanced golf balls and a rotating axis of rotation on the ball. Same principle in bowling balls and weight blocks. As the ball rotates if the CG is not rotating around the spin axis perfectly along the centerline of rotation, then the ball will rotate and the axis will wobble. If the CG manages to work to the centerline of the rotation then the axis will stablize but the axis tilt will have rotated. So in effect you can have an axis tilt that starts to cause the ball to go left but the imbalance of the ball causes the axis to wobble until the CG reaches the centerline of the spin. As soon as the CG starts traveling perfectly around a centerline of rotation the axis stops wobbling and could now tilt the axis to the right causing a fade.

The earth has done this many times in it's history. The North star was not always the north star.

FWIW the CG can also work toward the axis instead of toward the centerline depending on where the CG starts. This could cause the ball hook or slice even more than what impact initially dictated. I believe this would be the NORMAL result of an imbalanced golf ball, but a CG that moves toward the centerline is also a possibility especially with higher RPM's.

 

[natep]

I read in one of Dave Pelz's books that not all golf balls are perfectly balanced; that some balls' center of gravity is off center. He suggested floating a golf ball in salt water to see if it would settle in a certain way so that a particular spot on the ball always pointed up. This would indicate an out of balance golf ball.

Perhaps if the ball was not perfectly balanced, and was struck in such a way that it had minimal spin, the off-centeredness might well affect the flight so that the spin would slow down significantly, and maybe even change direction. Sort of like throwing a balloon in the air with backspin and having the knot side of the balloon affect its flight and spin

 

[Frans@France]

Yes I believe there is and I was going to ask about it tomorrow at the summit.

Imbalanced golf balls and a rotating axis of rotation on the ball. Same principle in bowling balls and weight blocks. As the ball rotates if the CG is not rotating around the spin axis perfectly along the centerline of rotation, then the ball will rotate and the axis will wobble. If the CG manages to work to the centerline of the rotation then the axis will stablize but the axis tilt will have rotated. So in effect you can have an axis tilt that starts to cause the ball to go left but the imbalance of the ball causes the axis to wobble until the CG reaches the centerline of the spin. As soon as the CG starts traveling perfectly around a centerline of rotation the axis stops wobbling and could now tilt the axis to the right causing a fade.

I use the check-go sweetspot finder to checked the golf ball. I will hardly find golf balls that when are measured twice will create a line NOT on the same spot as the first line. When putting on a 100% flat tourlinks putting green I only use balls that I have measured using the sweet spot finder.

 

[Matt Bryda]

I think Michael Finney posted something recently from Tuxen about spin degrading a certain amount during the flight of a golf shot.

I have hit shots in the past (with a new ball) that curved right to left and seemed to stop curving almost straighten out during the flight of the ball. This happend on more than a couple occasions. But as far as changing courses completely ( right to left then left to right) I think some of the dimples on the ball have to be worn out for this extreme curvature to take place.

Matt

 

[moontour]

what about the effect of a heel or toe strike? a shot struck with a draw shape but off the heel....still trying to figure that one out myself

 

[Richie3Jack]

I read in one of Dave Pelz's books that not all golf balls are perfectly balanced; that some balls' center of gravity is off center. He suggested floating a golf ball in salt water to see if it would settle in a certain way so that a particular spot on the ball always pointed up. This would indicate an out of balance golf ball.

Perhaps if the ball was not perfectly balanced, and was struck in such a way that it had minimal spin, the off-centeredness might well affect the flight so that the spin would slow down significantly, and maybe even change direction. Sort of like throwing a balloon in the air with backspin and having the knot side of the balloon affect its flight and spin

You can get one of those Check-Go thingies for finding the balance on a golf ball.

Golf balls are almost always a bit out of balance. It's the ones that are really out of balance to look out for. You can often tell those just by going on the putting green and hitting a few of the same putts over and over. I usually try to avoid the badly unbalanced ones.





3JACK

 

[mfm22]

Would the amount of top spin & side spin account for this?
Lets say either the top spin or side spin diminished while the other spin stayed strong. or the reverse.
There are many combinations of amt of spin and axis

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Would the amount of top spin & side spin account for this?
Lets say either the top spin or side spin diminished while the other spin stayed strong. or the reverse.
There are many combinations of amt of spin and axis

there is no such thing as top spin or side spin in a golf shot. Please understand this as it will help your understanding of ball flight.

There is only 1 kind of spin and that is backspin; the "side spin" or "measured" side spin is simply the measurement of how much the ball has tilted on its axis to one side or the other.

 

[mfm22]

my bad meant to say backspin -hit down on ball creates backspin [understood] that should give some lift as well .
But I admit to thinking of side spin as a different vector

 

[Virtuoso]

There is only one spin axis. The spin degrades throughout the flight of every shot and the rate of degradation depends on that particular ball's moment of inertia and drag created by the cover geometry (dimple pattern). Each ball has a different coeficient of lift (again caused by cover geometry) at different spin rates. And if that wasn't enough, the ball is obviously slowing down in linear speed due to drag, which determines how it is affected by the coeficient of lift at that moment. So, the appearance of the ball's curve (direction of lift) will vary as much as the above conditions can vary...which is a lot.

But, to make this relevant to the op's original question, will the ball appear to "fade/draw" more or less throughout the flight based on lift at that moment? Yes. Will the spin axis actually precess so that a fade becomes a draw or visa versa? No.