James Marshall (Hogan1953)
New member
Does anybody know how open or closed the face has to be at separation for the ball not to go more or less in the direction the head is travelling?
Ball flight
- Thread starter James Marshall (Hogan1953)
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off target line
...if i remember my trig correctly and assuming you just push or pull it a bit w/o hook or slice spin i think the distance off your target line should equal:
sin (#degrees off) X distance ball travels
...eg, let's say 5° off:
for a 100 yd shot: sin(5) X 100 = 8.7 yards off target line
for a 300 yd shot: sin(5) X 300 = 26.1 yards off target line
...that's why driver push/pulls often end up a lot worse that ones with wedges...
-hcw
...if i remember my trig correctly and assuming you just push or pull it a bit w/o hook or slice spin i think the distance off your target line should equal:
sin (#degrees off) X distance ball travels
...eg, let's say 5° off:
for a 100 yd shot: sin(5) X 100 = 8.7 yards off target line
for a 300 yd shot: sin(5) X 300 = 26.1 yards off target line
...that's why driver push/pulls often end up a lot worse that ones with wedges...
-hcw
hcw,
I don't think that is what he means...
I think he means how far open or closed does the blade have to be before the ball immediatey goes left or right of the line the club is being swung on, i.e. the ball no longer starts down the target line and then bends one way or the other, but starts left or right of the target line immediately...
My feeling is that whenever the clubface is not square at impact, the ball never really sets out exactly down the target line, but slightly towards whichever way the blade is oriented. So technically, when you say, aim left to fade to right fairway, the ball will always start more to the center of the fairway than you think. Vice -versa for hooks/draws.
I think he is probably trying to figure out what is a true "pull hook" or "push fade" rather than a shot that looks like one, but isn't...
I don't think that is what he means...
I think he means how far open or closed does the blade have to be before the ball immediatey goes left or right of the line the club is being swung on, i.e. the ball no longer starts down the target line and then bends one way or the other, but starts left or right of the target line immediately...
My feeling is that whenever the clubface is not square at impact, the ball never really sets out exactly down the target line, but slightly towards whichever way the blade is oriented. So technically, when you say, aim left to fade to right fairway, the ball will always start more to the center of the fairway than you think. Vice -versa for hooks/draws.
I think he is probably trying to figure out what is a true "pull hook" or "push fade" rather than a shot that looks like one, but isn't...
meanings
that is what i was addressing, hence the qualification of no hook/slice...
agreed, except that it is square separation that matters, not impact...
depnds on how you set-up and execute it...
i'll let hogan1953 decide what he means and is trying to figure out...
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Our good friends at Callaway...
...Say that their findings put it at 70% of the face angle—off of the path.
...Say that their findings put it at 70% of the face angle—off of the path.
You haven't read the original post correctly..
The only way the ball can go straight left or straight right is if the club path is at 90* to the clubface at impact (or "seperation" doh).
If the blub path is anything other than 90* then the ball WILL hook or fade.
No it doesn't....I was referring to where the ball starts compared to where you aimed (which is technically your target line).
Got a club handy?..
Set up for a small chip, blade square to target etc.
Now close the blade 30* or so. Hit the shot along your original target line..
I will guarantee you that the ball will START left (NOT along the original target line you are swinging on) and depending how hard you hit it it will then hook left.
Not Brian, but check out this webpage developed by a technical thinking clubmaker. His writeup indicates the ball starts out on a path determined by roughly 85% due to clubface angle and 15% due to clubhead path(it actually depends on the difference between path and face but this is for small differences). This correlates fairly well to what other scientists have written about and is fairly close to the 70% number that Brian quoted.
http://www.tutelman.com/golfclubs/DesignNotes/swing2.php?ref=clubmakeronline
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