Ballard swing method

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rhassel

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Apologize upfront if this is a total rehash - I recently picked up Ballard's book and have read it several times. I am left-handed but golf right-handed and his method seems sort of like how I would throw a frisbee (left-handed) - which I like. It seems like a powerful swing which keys on powering the swing with the legs and firing the right side.

There is a Ballard teacher in my town (Atlanta) who I am planning on taking a few lessons from. Can I build a repeatable swing using the Ballard method? I am currently a 13 looking to get into single digits - no delusions of becoming club champion. I am trying to build a repeatable swing which will allow me to hit more fairways with the driver (my biggest weakness) with decent distance. I would appreciate any thoughts. Sorry for the long post. Thanks.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
rhassel, welcome to the site but i'm confused by your post. This is your post post on Brian Manzella.com but you are asking opinions of people of what it is going to be like going to Jimmy Ballard?
 
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rhassel

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Fair enough Jim. I don't think there are any Manzella guys based in Atlanta and was just trying to gather some info. Please disregard my post. Thanks.
 
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diggerdog

New
And people post about lessons with Ben Doyle, Mac OGrady, etc. So frikkin what?

Rhassel, I just last month met Brian in Atlanta and he paid a supreme compliment to Ballard, who, in another way, effectively got people to have a proper left arm motion past impact. Brian is stingy with the compliments.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
rhassel said:
Fair enough Jim. I don't think there are any Manzella guys based in Atlanta and was just trying to gather some info. Please disregard my post. Thanks.
Click to expand...

That's fine, i was just curious because we do get members here who only register and post to try and "stir the pot" so to speak. It gets old and annoying and i'm just making sure your post is a genuine one.

Thanks :)
 
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Wolfman

New
Brian and Atlanta

Didn't Brian just do a school in Atlanta? I'm pretty sure he was there last year. Put up a new thread asking for help from Atlanta graduates.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
BALLARD.

Do a search on this site, I have said plenty about it—and him.

He does have some good ideas—and a bunch of totally goofy ones.
 
huestisc

huestisc

New
The straight scoop on Jimmy B

I got "Ballardized" as a kid, so I can tell you a bit about the good, the bad and the ugly of Ballard, and how it compares to Manzella.

Ballard was the antidote for a lot of swing problems of the 1960s...he came in with all guns blazing against the reverse pivot, head down, left arm rigidly straight swings that were ruining average golfers of that era.

He had a lot of success in the late 70s and early 80s with tour players, all who had a lot of natural talent, but many of whom grew up with the aforementioned faults. His ideas were what they needed to get to an "orthodox" swing....but Ballardites were prone to go overboard, and he spawned a generation of players with super wide stances, huge sways, no left side participation, etc.

My Dad was a PGA pro who went to Ballard a few times then started teaching with him a little bit at some of his schools, and I got the full dosis...I still fight the effects of the Ballard stuff to this day.

On the balance, I think Ballard has a pretty good idea of the pivot and the motion of the big muscles, but he doesn't talk at all about what your hands and arms should be doing, how impact looks like, etc. He just assumes that with a good pivot, the small muscles will do what they are supposed to do automatically. To me, this is just as flawed as the "hand controlled pivot" literalists who tell every 22 handicapper that if they move their hands to the right spots, the pivot will naturally follow.

At the end of the day, Jimmy was someone who introduced a lot of the right ideas at the right time and was widely copied by other teachers of the day. He is also an entertaining personality. But he is a method teacher, and unless you have the right illness to begin with, his prescription will not work for you.

Brian Manzella, on the other hand, will give each student the exact medicine they need based on THEIR particular golfing illness. And when they are cured of that, he will adjust the diagnosis and prescription to fit the new (and upgraded) situation.

I highly recommend that you stick around here, learn all you can from the gold-mine of information on this sight, and then go see Brian or one of his boys.

Good luck.
 
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DOCW3

New
Right Illiness

What would that be?

huestisc said:
I got "Ballardized" as a kid, so I can tell you a bit about the good, the bad and the ugly of Ballard, and how it compares to Manzella.

Ballard was the antidote for a lot of swing problems of the 1960s...he came in with all guns blazing against the reverse pivot, head down, left arm rigidly straight swings that were ruining average golfers of that era.

He had a lot of success in the late 70s and early 80s with tour players, all who had a lot of natural talent, but many of whom grew up with the aforementioned faults. His ideas were what they needed to get to an "orthodox" swing....but Ballardites were prone to go overboard, and he spawned a generation of players with super wide stances, huge sways, no left side participation, etc.

My Dad was a PGA pro who went to Ballard a few times then started teaching with him a little bit at some of his schools, and I got the full dosis...I still fight the effects of the Ballard stuff to this day.

On the balance, I think Ballard has a pretty good idea of the pivot and the motion of the big muscles, but he doesn't talk at all about what your hands and arms should be doing, how impact looks like, etc. He just assumes that with a good pivot, the small muscles will do what they are supposed to do automatically. To me, this is just as flawed as the "hand controlled pivot" literalists who tell every 22 handicapper that if they move their hands to the right spots, the pivot will naturally follow.

At the end of the day, Jimmy was someone who introduced a lot of the right ideas at the right time and was widely copied by other teachers of the day. He is also an entertaining personality. But he is a method teacher, and unless you have the right illness to begin with, his prescription will not work for you.

Brian Manzella, on the other hand, will give each student the exact medicine they need based on THEIR particular golfing illness. And when they are cured of that, he will adjust the diagnosis and prescription to fit the new (and upgraded) situation.

I highly recommend that you stick around here, learn all you can from the gold-mine of information on this sight, and then go see Brian or one of his boys.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
 
huestisc

huestisc

New
Well, in the Manzella Matrix world, I think near one end you would have "Stack & Tilt" and near the other end you would have Jimmy Ballard. Someone with an exaggerated reverse pivot for and a typical slicer's swing would get some "medicine" to make them more orthodox, and vice versa.
 
self-mastery

self-mastery

New
I think that if you spend a few months here and learn the basics you will be able to make most patterns work.

Tinkering with knowledge is a lesser sin.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
A stone fact.

You can not judge a teacher, by their Tour Players. You just can't. And that goes for me too.

I have actually TAUGHT someone who won a Tour event—and a million dollar first prize—directly becuase of a weeks worth of lessons. (Much less the other 1000 hours I spent with him).

Harmon has had student win many majors and Tiger slam. NObody thinks HE has all the answers.

Ballard and Leadbetter had tournaments where they had the winner and several in the Top 10.

Nobody is saying THEY have the answers anymore either.

What really matters is the LEGS your information, explanation, and PURE-D teaching ability has with ALL LEVELS of golfers.

Trust me, there are people on THIS forum, with JUST THE INFO they have learned on here, that could help a lot a Tour Players.

What crap were they working in befor you showed up? Are they actually DOING what your preach? Etc?

Ballard was very big, Leadbetter was BIGGER, and Hardy was a big as I ever saw anyone get, but is ALREADY on the way down a bit.

I'm going to LAP all of 'em.
 
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jerry1967

New
diggerdog said:
And people post about lessons with Ben Doyle, Mac OGrady, etc. So frikkin what?

Rhassel, I just last month met Brian in Atlanta and he paid a supreme compliment to Ballard, who, in another way, effectively got people to have a proper left arm motion past impact. Brian is stingy with the compliments.
Click to expand...

What was Ballards way to get people to get the proper left arm motion past impact?
 
self-mastery

self-mastery

New
jerry1967 said:
What was Ballards way to get people to get the proper left arm motion past impact?
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I believe it was his idea of connection. The upper left arm is plastered to the left pectoral muscle. It is almost impossible to not go left with this position.

I tinkered around with this earlier today with success.

Sizzle
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
Brian Manzella said:
You can not judge a teacher, by their Tour Players. You just can't. And that goes for me too.

I have actually TAUGHT someone who won a Tour event—and a million dollar first prize—directly becuase of a weeks worth of lessons. (Much less the other 1000 hours I spent with him).

Harmon has had student win many majors and Tiger slam. NObody thinks HE has all the answers.

Ballard and Leadbetter had tournaments where they had the winner and several in the Top 10.

Nobody is saying THEY have the answers anymore either.

What really matters is the LEGS your information, explanation, and PURE-D teaching ability has with ALL LEVELS of golfers.

Trust me, there are people on THIS forum, with JUST THE INFO they have learned on here, that could help a lot a Tour Players.

What crap were they working in befor you showed up? Are they actually DOING what your preach? Etc?

Ballard was very big, Leadbetter was BIGGER, and Hardy was a big as I ever saw anyone get, but is ALREADY on the way down a bit.

I'm going to LAP all of 'em.
Click to expand...

Nice. (honestly)
 
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wulsy

New
Kevin Shields said:
Point the left elbow at the left hip thru the ball. It would be reason enough for me to be concerned that all his Tour players were short hitters.
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I remember seeing Curtis Strange on the range at the British Open around the time he was US Open champion and I was surprised how short he hit it. He hit a nice half-fade, almost dead straight shot with everything. Me and my bud commented to each other how short he hit it and he heard us and started going at it full blast with the driver, whereby he maybe got another 20 yds or so out of it. OTOH, Faldo at 6'4" with a great physique was even shorter.
 
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duckhook

New
huestisc said:
But he is a method teacher, and unless you have the right illness to begin with, his prescription will not work for you.
Click to expand...

That is brilliant.

The majority of golfers would be much better served by working with an instructor who can make appropriate adjustments without drastically altering ones swing to conform to A method. I call this kind of instructor an
improvisational teacher. Brian Manzella falls in the category of improv teacher. Not too many of them around.
 
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rmartingolf

New
jerry1967 said:
I watched Hale Sutton in person and he was no short hitter. He hit the ball very low but definitely not short.
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Relatively short or just plain short?

These days short would be 275. In those days 250? Stan Utley was was SHORT no matter how you spin it. Pavin was relatively short. Guys like Toms, Rocco, and Brain Gay could still win out there but when you are 30, 50, and even 70 yards shorter than everyone else, it's a different golf course that they are playing.

I spotted for Roger Maltbie at the BMW this year and it's hard to really get a feel for just how far the big boys out there hit it until you are inside the ropes on a course ( Cog Hill ) that you get to play a lot. I can't hit it out of my shadow but those guys were constantly 70 yards past where my best drives usually are- and I play Dubsdread from about 6,500 to 6,700. They play it from around 7,200 to 7,400. Now I have some high school kids that have ball speeds 165+ .....Makes you want to give it up :eek:
 
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