Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Colin
Answer me this, are you able to hit a big sweeping push hook on command?
Answer me this, are you able to hit a big sweeping push hook on command?
Beating OTT Once and For All... Stuck Again.
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ColinMB
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Gees, I don't know if I know what that is.... With an iron? I guess I can always make the ball go left to left. I come over the top with a closed face... That's all I can equate a 'push hook' I do know I can hit a push fade. I just come super far inside (it's an accident because I HATE the right side of the fairway so it means I didn't compensate with a closed face).
If the above isn't the right description, I guess it's safe to assume I can't.... Do you see anything in the videos? (aside from a trainwreck)
If the above isn't the right description, I guess it's safe to assume I can't.... Do you see anything in the videos? (aside from a trainwreck)
Ahh, same question I was asking above.
It took me a long time to figure out my problem with Soft Draw and trying to hit a push draw is that face had to point a little bit right of target and the path was going too far left and not slightly right and outside face angle. And you can't go OTT hitting a big push-hook way right (I don't think).
And aiming way right, with ball maybe further back in stance is one way to make sure you hit inside the ball and have enough tilt, too?
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Jim means a shot that starts right, not left of aimline, and hooks back left towards aimline.
It's really valuable to learn how to hit that shot. I exaggerate that shot sometimes by playing the ball back in my stance and trying to hit the ball, say 30 yards right of the target with a 7-iron and draw the ball to 20 yards right of your aimline. Do that shot long enough and you'll need NHA2.
Seriously, learning that my clubface was not open enough at impact and path not right enough to hit a good, soft push draw, was THE key to making Soft Draw work for me.
I'm not saying people don't often try to hit too fast from the top and struggle with that. Trying to learn to use your pivot and not just move your arms and hands is important, but many people are trying to play a draw with a plane line and face angle that just won't work and they blame OTT or something else. A great test is can you hit, even with just a half swing 7-iron, a shot straight dead right, and then straight right with a big hook, and then dead right with a slight draw, and then gradually move the face and path back closer to aimline where you are trying to hit just a slight push draw.
Of course if you decide to play a fade, you have to have the face aiming a little bit right of your clubpath, not left of your path.
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
My point is that if you can't hit a push hook where the ball starts RIGHT of your target and ends up LEFT of the intended target you obviously don't swing right enough and you can't get a face closed enough.
Next question, are you a fader or a puller?
Next question, are you a fader or a puller?
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
You have an open clubface problem combined with a poor pivot. You will never fix the OTT problem if you don't fix your open face problem. If you said you had problems pulling everything it would be different but generally open face problems are easily masked in irons due to flipping but not so much in woods because of the speed/loft.
You need to fix the face and learn to pivot better.
You need to fix the face and learn to pivot better.
ColinMB
New
... Ugh. Well this sway thing (pivot)is as bad as I've seen it. I've also gone the NSA route. Maybe Stack and Tilt IS a possibility for a guy like me. If it eliminates poor pivot (which is stressed).
I rewatched episode 6 of the BManzella show on Youtube. I started to focus on keeping enough weight on my left (front) foot that I cannot lift it off the ground on the way back (I believe I couldn't anyway)... also doing drill with chair behind right hip..... Things are just a tad ugly right now, I'm between 2-3 swings right now.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
S&T would make it worse you need someone who really understands NSA and teach the pieces of it you need.
ColinMB
New
Well I don't think S&T does, if anything it really helps control my pivot.... but regardless I was more concerned with controlling over the top. If I could hit a driver with S&T I probably wouldn't be having this conversation.
I know I can tell you I can get back into NSA mode, pick up my driver and not hit right. However, my irons get a little ugly. I have to turn down the 'twisting' activities quite a bit.
I really believe the more I look at my swing there is a large degree of 'over swing' going on there. I never used to have that large sway.
Now that it's winter it would probably be a good time to go over my SD pattern video and really try to implement it without any fear of ruining a score.
Thanks for the advice though, guess I'll just keep working at it. Thanks to Brian as well for his top tips on OTT cures.
ColinMB
New
Well Jim I really thought about some of the questions you were asking me, so I had to go to the range and just figure out what the heck is going on.
After warming up I wanted to say the first thing I wanted to do was make sure I am pivoting better, not swaying. Now there may be something wrong with my rotation, maybe not, but I can tell you I feel a lot better about my pivot because there's no sway. This bothered me a lot, and I had to wonder, was this what was happening to my swing towards the end of the season and I never knew it? I probably should have had a look on tape, but I never even had a 'check in' lesson all season (on video). I regret that now.
BTW: The range I go to has a mirror facing you at every station, this is great for stuff like pivot correction, etc. So maybe it's not a 100% but I guarantee you my swing is more 'over the ball' now.
So on to your push/hook question. I have to be honest I don't think i can quite do it. What I could do was start the ball straight, have it go about 10-15 yards right of target.
Also I could easily push fade. Or make it go straight.
I worked up to driver and with my sway gone, I was definitely making better contact. I thought about what you said about open face, but I had kinda 'grooved' the inside feeling a bit with my 6 iron.
So driver went a lot better. I did some spraying, but obviously I am experimenting here a bit. I could draw the ball (not regularly mind you). I had some total slices, but I could stop it within the next shot if I got out of control. This was very welcomed.
I fidgeted with my grip and I have to admit, I have trouble closing the face. I had to fidget with the trick I saw Brian do on his videos, where you raise your left hand and kind of 'dial' in the face. I am a little embarrassed to admit I probably had to close the face a good... 2-3 degrees. I don't know why. If I do this with irons, I have trouble making them go straight.
One thing I figured out tonight.. I cannot have a strong grip. It just messes with my swing in path, weirdish kind of way. I prefer 'dialing' the driver face. I have a 4 wood with a 2-3* closed face so it's not a concern (I should probably get them matching a bit).
Anyway, point is I did much better with driver. I still don't close the face well on driver. I would say for every 15 drives, I hit 5 dead straight, 5 left, and 5 were total blocks out to right field.
My number one thought was swinging (and releasing) to right field. My number two thought was slow from the top, power through impact. Only one weird thing started happening after a while... I was starting to hit lowish drives that would stay low.... start straight, and then HOOK like mad... I mean..... maybe 30-40 yards left! Any clue what does that?
Anyway, at the end I wanted to hit some wedges, they were all starting straight, and going left... sometimes about 10 yards. Weird. But there you go. Something happened tonight. I hope I learned something out there.
After warming up I wanted to say the first thing I wanted to do was make sure I am pivoting better, not swaying. Now there may be something wrong with my rotation, maybe not, but I can tell you I feel a lot better about my pivot because there's no sway. This bothered me a lot, and I had to wonder, was this what was happening to my swing towards the end of the season and I never knew it? I probably should have had a look on tape, but I never even had a 'check in' lesson all season (on video). I regret that now.
BTW: The range I go to has a mirror facing you at every station, this is great for stuff like pivot correction, etc. So maybe it's not a 100% but I guarantee you my swing is more 'over the ball' now.
So on to your push/hook question. I have to be honest I don't think i can quite do it. What I could do was start the ball straight, have it go about 10-15 yards right of target.
Also I could easily push fade. Or make it go straight.
I worked up to driver and with my sway gone, I was definitely making better contact. I thought about what you said about open face, but I had kinda 'grooved' the inside feeling a bit with my 6 iron.
So driver went a lot better. I did some spraying, but obviously I am experimenting here a bit. I could draw the ball (not regularly mind you). I had some total slices, but I could stop it within the next shot if I got out of control. This was very welcomed.
I fidgeted with my grip and I have to admit, I have trouble closing the face. I had to fidget with the trick I saw Brian do on his videos, where you raise your left hand and kind of 'dial' in the face. I am a little embarrassed to admit I probably had to close the face a good... 2-3 degrees. I don't know why. If I do this with irons, I have trouble making them go straight.
One thing I figured out tonight.. I cannot have a strong grip. It just messes with my swing in path, weirdish kind of way. I prefer 'dialing' the driver face. I have a 4 wood with a 2-3* closed face so it's not a concern (I should probably get them matching a bit).
Anyway, point is I did much better with driver. I still don't close the face well on driver. I would say for every 15 drives, I hit 5 dead straight, 5 left, and 5 were total blocks out to right field.
My number one thought was swinging (and releasing) to right field. My number two thought was slow from the top, power through impact. Only one weird thing started happening after a while... I was starting to hit lowish drives that would stay low.... start straight, and then HOOK like mad... I mean..... maybe 30-40 yards left! Any clue what does that?
Anyway, at the end I wanted to hit some wedges, they were all starting straight, and going left... sometimes about 10 yards. Weird. But there you go. Something happened tonight. I hope I learned something out there.
sounds like you started swinging too far right
you'd be amazed how little you have to swing right o be swinging TOO far right. and also how quickly you can start swining right after you've been swinging left alot.
as soon as you have a reason to swing to the right of course, and thats because you've fixed that clubface.
to me your pivot didnt look too bad if im honest. at least not goin back. could probably turn your hips a little sharper and quick. try to get your right hip behind you and over your right heel on the backswing. this shold improve the "sway" which i didnt really see anyway.
sounds to me that you had leakagea and a bit of throwaway coming into the hit. you can get away with it on the driver, but with the ball on the ground - fat city.
when you get rid of the leakage to fix the irons, and start swining more right with more of a flat left wrist and less loft = low sharp hooks
ColinMB
New
Thank you. That's good information.
I think you're right and the iron fat thing is bang on. What exactly is 'leakage' though? Not retaining enough lag?
Thanks also for clarifying why as time went on last night, that I was starting to hit more low sharp hooks.
I still believe I have trouble getting my face to close on driver. But at least swinging right is showing immediate benefit. Also, I concentrated on turning more over the ball and that helped too. A few small adjustments and I was pretty surprised. I have to figure out driver face though. I guess this is an adjustment all players have to make?
Maybe this is why I've had such a hard time hitting the driver in my 3 years of playing this game? I've struggled with OTT since starting. Shortening my backswing and keeping my hands low have paid more dividends than any other mechanic that I've tried.
If I'm in the 1% category, got any other advice that will work for me that maybe won't work for the other 99%?benhogan55
New
Hey Brian..how about a top ten list for fixing the fat shots?
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