Ben Hogan 5 Lessons.

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richf

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Although fairly new to this forum, I have folowed Brian's articles on FGI and have been working on a neutral grip as a way of eliminating the hook from my game. I noticed references to Hogan's 5 Lessons on golf sites and bought a copy and am working my way through it.
I notice some similarities in the teaching but would be interested to know what you think the important aspects of Hogan's lessons are and of any potential weaknesses.
From what I have covered, the grip and stance both help me to hit the ball much straighter and make it harder to turn the club over so I am encouraged that this is the way to go.
 
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Brian Manzella

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He didn't really understand plane and plane shift, at least he communicated it incorrectly.

One example is he confused CLUB plane shift on the downswing with SHOULDER plane shift.

But it is a great book if you can cut through HW Wind's prose :)
 
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EdZ

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There is very little, if anything 'missing' from what Hogan describes in 5 lessons, but I agree that there are several points that can be misleading enough to be harmful. Read it very carefully. Hogan sometimes mentions very important details in passing (classic case is re: the hips and the rubber band image, which people often confuse as a 'spin', and in which most people miss his point about weight shift to the left side happening first).

I would highly recommend you find footage of Ben swinging to view while studying the book (Shell's matches are you best bet).

His hands and chest are in synch beautifully, and he uses his body to swing his arms/hands/club as a unit, while feeling the shot in the hands and feet. Watch his weight shift/lower body motion and practice that without a club - then switch to a heavy club (I prefer one without a clubface at first), and focus completely on finishing in balance and on the plane (lasers are very helpful, as is keeping the elbows the same distance apart, and pointed down, especially the right elbow). Let your body flow with the swinging force, as if you were going to throw the clubhead down the fairway.

Pay close attention to page 102 - that is one of the core motions you 'must' understand (but certainly not the only one).


And if you really want to learn from Hogan - strap your arms together above the elbows, and strap your legs together above the knees and swing a heavy club while keeping in balance, and getting your left shoulder under your chin, shoulders staying on the spine angle.

Edited to correct left shoulder 12/23
 
Burner

Burner

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Try this LINK for an insight into the Hogan mechanics.

Scroll right across the page as there are 34 frames to look at.

Enjoy!:)
 
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6bee1dee

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quote:Originally posted by Burner

Try this LINK for an insight into the Hogan mechanics.

Scroll right across the page as there are 34 frames to look at.

Enjoy!:)
Click to expand...

I have that very swing on an AVI in slow motion. Since it was shot on film, you can see the club throught the swing. I look at this swing all the time, It is a pretty sight. Like looking at the answer to a riddle
 
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Eagletau

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I know it's Christmas, and all that 'peace on earth & goodwill to all men' s...; but, this following quote must be the absurdity of all instruction:
quote:And if you really want to learn from Hogan - strap your arms together above the elbows, and strap your legs together above the knees and swing a heavy club while keeping in balance, and getting your right shoulder under your chin, shoulders staying on the spine angle.
Click to expand...

Swing the clubhead, freedom Ed, give us a break, ya got nothin' left to lose, f... the game is hard enough, even Hogan like, that other great swinger, Ms M Wright took refuge in the purity of practice in their latter years - just swinging...and some pleasure in the occasional pure contact, by mischance,...let go of it Ed...it's all right to let go - believe Christ & his apostles that there is a Class of Men whose sole delight is in Destruction (that's a quote from W. Blake in his poem 'Milton'.

Peace on Earth
 
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EdZ

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quote:Originally posted by Eagletau

I know it's Christmas, and all that 'peace on earth & goodwill to all men' s...; but, this following quote must be the absurdity of all instruction:
quote:And if you really want to learn from Hogan - strap your arms together above the elbows, and strap your legs together above the knees and swing a heavy club while keeping in balance, and getting your right shoulder under your chin, shoulders staying on the spine angle.
Click to expand...

Swing the clubhead, freedom Ed, give us a break, ya got nothin' left to lose, f... the game is hard enough, even Hogan like, that other great swinger, Ms M Wright took refuge in the purity of practice in their latter years - just swinging...and some pleasure in the occasional pure contact, by mischance,...let go of it Ed...it's all right to let go - believe Christ & his apostles that there is a Class of Men whose sole delight is in Destruction (that's a quote from W. Blake in his poem 'Milton'.

Peace on Earth
Click to expand...


Think what you will.... I know what works, as did Hogan, Hebron, and many others - Peace on Earth is great, but please keep God out of discussions about golf, some of us don't believe what you do, or care to hear it.

and yes, there was an error in my original post, it should have read left shoulder under the chin, of course, for backswing.

And if you have 'reasons', that you feel my posts about golf aren't correct, I'd be glad to discuss them with you, THAT is what this forum is all about.
 
bcoak

bcoak

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And if you really want to learn from Hogan - strap your arms together above the elbows, and strap your legs together above the knees and swing a heavy club while keeping in balance, and getting your right shoulder under your chin, shoulders staying on the spine angle.

I have to agree - I do not see what this drill would accomplish. Way to unnatural. i think i would fall over and not be able to get back up.
 
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EdZ

New
Just try it.... especially the arms.

This drill does 'many' things - the most important being keeping the arms swinging as a unit, on plane (due to the elbows being the same distance apart during the 'entire' swing - which also aids in the 'release' of the arms/hands/club - by the body.

Feeling that arm motion, on plane, will also give you the proper in synch forearm rotation feel, and allow you to understand what the 'triangle' is all about

The legs - keeping you from a sway, keeping your motion in tempo, and on balance, keeping your hip motion in sequence, and the weight on the insides of the feet- and the muscles being used in the swing are the 'inside' muscles, as hogan shows in 5 lessons

The straps should be put on when you are in proper setup position, and aren't meant to 'squeeze' anything, just keep them in place.

Hebron's book - mind, body, swing - describes this well if you want a reference, including Hogan's statement that this drill 'never has failed, with anyone he has used it with'

And yes balance is a big part of the drill, as it is with the swing....


Watch Hogan on film, and imagine that he has those straps on - you will see it, especialy in the arms, that strap is the more important of the two IMO, and as you may know, there are many, many training aids that use this idea.... including at least one endorsed by bill harmon, certainly a family that knows a bit about golf - and I have heard butch talk of the 'strap' as well, in reference to Hogan

You can use the 'basketball between the knees' instead of the lower strap.... same idea and easier to use for some.
 
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EdZ

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Thank you ragman - you continue to have some of the best pics, links and references and I appreciate your sharing them very much.
 
Redgoat

Redgoat

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EdZ,

Personally, I am not a big fan of keeping the elbows the same distance apart during the entire swing. Are you? If so, why?

Redgoat
 
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EdZ

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mainly because of the ease in which you stay on plane, and the ease with which you naturally release, and stay in synch, using the body to swing the triangle

tempo and balance play a big role, of course....

I'm not a fan of 'forcing' anything.. during a swing...basically, obey the on plane swinging of clubhead and shaft.....which includes the natural on plane rotation of the toe of the club (within limits)

that said, certain feels make that much easier, the position of the right elbow especially, and that strap, really helps people understand the feel, both of the elbow, and of the body supporting the 'swinging' on plane club

Redgoat - why would you not be? what do you see as an advantage to the right elbow being out of position? The swing is clearly both left and right side IMO, and keeping the elbows the same distance apart makes this so much easier...

I do, very much, fall into the 'swinging' side of things....
 
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denny.

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Most any good players would not have a problem wifh strap around upper arms. Figure 8 strap may be best teaching aid there is.
 
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EdZ

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quote:Originally posted by denny.

Most any good players would not have a problem wifh strap around upper arms. Figure 8 strap may be best teaching aid there is.
Click to expand...

tough to call.... a heavy club (or a laser) is up there too ;)

edit - and for Brian's benefit.... I'd add the medicus 2000! :D
 
Redgoat

Redgoat

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EdZ,

It is important to determine what the distance is between the elbows at set-up to evaluate if they should maintain that space throughout. So, the question is probably best answered with how far apart are they at set-up?

Redgoat
 
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