Ben Hogan 5 Lessons.

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EdZ

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I don't think it matters that much what distance they are, as long as they are hanging naturally, the body is in balance, the shoulders (at a minimum) are basically square to your line, and the elbows maintain that distance.

The less you 'do' during your setup and swing, the easier it is to repeat.

The on plane force of the swinging motion will 'do' a lot for you, when you are the balanced hub of the wheel and the shaft is the spoke. The elbow distance is about maintaining plane (and as Brian's artice/pics demonstrate, this is easier to do with mid body hands - bent left, flat right at setup).
 
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Eagletau

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mgjordan wrote:

quote:Eagle,
Any chance you study the Ernest Jones method of learning to swing?
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Yes, anyone who can play par golf with one leg shot off (in the first carnage of last century) is worth listening to. Have you tried swinging the pocket knife on a string?

He certainly taught, unlike EdZ that the body was a great follower, and a terrible leader. And he taught a lot of great golfers - and don't ask me to name them - see his book.

The elbows strapped together drill has been around for at least 50 years: see Pennick and his comments of playing with Demaret one day. Demaret's swing thought, that day, was to keep his elbows in front of his body. He shot 65 or 68 that day, I can't remember. They weren't strapped together but in front of his torso.

And what about "Jack's" flying right elbow? It wasn't strapped to anything.

Oh well, free advice is cheap I guess. All these "straps" fall into the category of "tips", they have some merit but should only be seen as a peripheral part of a greater whole, not as a central fundamental.
 
mgjordan

mgjordan

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I have worked with the Jones method before. I have hit many balls with the Whippy Tempomaster which is basically a rock on a string. I do know that Ernest Jones said many players used his method, but I don't really buy that. He mentions Bobby Jones, and while Jones does mention swinging the clubhead in his book, he also talks a LOT about the hip motion. I don't think putting your attention on only swinging the clubhead is the best way to go. There is more to golf than just swinging the clubhead.
 
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EdZ

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Jacks elbow worked for him for a number of reasons..... not the least of which that he likes a fade, or that he had a fair amount of forward lean and leg drive in his younger days..... You will notice that he has changed this as he has gotten older.

Eagletau - the body and hands neither lead nor follow in a good swing, they work together, staying in synch with the chest (at least from hip to hip), in all good swings. You can get their from either extreme. And yes, hands and elbows staying out in front (effectively pointed 'down' during the swing).

But hey, if you care to disagree about the strap, go right ahead.... but I am certain that Hogan, and many, many others would disagree with your categorizing it as just another 'tip'.
 
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EdZ

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Are you talking about transition? you said it wasn't good for 'backswing'.....please clarify.

If absolute force was your goal, I can understand why this would decrease transition load (unless you have wrists like Hogan).... but doing so would effect plane and accuracy, and efficient force (assuming a flat left wrist that you advocate).
 
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EdZ

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quote:Originally posted by brianman

Getting 'ready' for the downswing is the PURPOSE of the backswing, no?
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Of course.... but my point is that your disagreement about the backswing strap is about power, and mine is about accuracy. The strap gives you on plane force, which is efficient force. 99% of golfers swing with too much effort, forgeting about how important proper contact is, and efficient force.

Your point about the strap 'ruining' a backswing, is quite a stretch.... it 'may' limit power, for those at the highest levels trying to get every yard out of a drive - but for most players, the gain in distance via on plane, efficient (and repeatable) force far, far outweighs any concern re: load - a concern that only exists if you force yourself to have a flat lead wrist during the transition, which Hogan did not have, but obtained when it mattered, at impact, via lead forearm rotation... gotta love that left thumb....keep it under the shaft..... eh Brian ;)
 
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Brian Manzella

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Ed...the straps are goofy.

Just learn to do it right.

The arms should separate some on the backswing...

AND STILL BE ON PLANE, etc.!
 
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EdZ

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quote:Originally posted by brianman

Ed...the straps are goofy.

Just learn to do it right.

The arms should separate some on the backswing...

AND STILL BE ON PLANE, etc.!
Click to expand...

Still can't give me any credit Brian? And all you can say in defense of your position is that straps are 'goofy'?

I'm sure even Hogan would laugh at that one!

Yes, there isn't ANY move in golf that should be a forced/restricted feel, so the arms don't need to be 'exact' - but the straps are still one of THE best ways to get KEY FEELS of what a good swing is all about - ON PLANE SWINGING FORCE directed to a target.

Physics - the best 'swing' teacher ever.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
All I am saying Ed is that if you put the straps on a guy or girl with a nice looking backswing...they would make as nice a backswing with the things on.

YES...they may make someone with a BAD backswing make a better bad backswing...

Like Ben Doyle told me SIXTEEN YEARS AGO...;)..."the easiest thing for a golf techer to do, is make a HACKER a better HACKER."

How true.

Just Do It Right!
 
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McDuff

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I think "5 Lessons" is the most overrated book in golf. Maybe is so highly thought of because he was such a great player or maybe he was the first person to evan talk about a swing plane (even though he got it wrong). Let's separate the player from the teacher! Its so rigid and absolute and, I believe, perfect technique for most golfers to hit weak slices.
 
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