Ben Hogan's Five Lessons
- Thread starter Matt 4-L
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Plus, the Ravielli drawings are works of art but static as they are, they convey an impression of bristling muscular force and power, at odds with the fluidity and grace of Hogan's actual swing. 5L probably did more damage in the years when videos of Hogan's swing were not easily had.
Matt 4-L
New
Good Point Sweetser, I watch a lot of his videos and try to see exactly what he was doing versus how he described it.
this part helped the most "drinking some ginger ale....seems to prevent the hands from feeling too fat and puffy" of course I replaced the ginger ale with something a bit stronger
The story was that Mr. Hogan got this "ginger ale" information from a concert violinist. Compare that to what Brian, Kevin, Michael and the rest of the crew are doing today to try and get it right.
I find it noteworthy that so many ardent students of the swing that peruse this swing-focused forum found the book less than useful.
Having said that, Ben's swing as described in the book just about requires an all or nothing commitment. When we get how he laid the club off, that 'world class move' as described by John Schlee, that feeling I suppose will be very alien to most. I felt like there's no way I could get the club to square up and meet the ball from back there. But with persistence to overcome the mental stumbling block, my, how wrong I was.
IMHO, the book is a work of genius. But for sure, for most of us, there's a long dark tunnel before we come to the light at the end.
Having said that, Ben's swing as described in the book just about requires an all or nothing commitment. When we get how he laid the club off, that 'world class move' as described by John Schlee, that feeling I suppose will be very alien to most. I felt like there's no way I could get the club to square up and meet the ball from back there. But with persistence to overcome the mental stumbling block, my, how wrong I was.
IMHO, the book is a work of genius. But for sure, for most of us, there's a long dark tunnel before we come to the light at the end.
Lindsey Newman
New
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
I house sat for Gardner Dickinson years ago and had a ton of original Ravielli graphite sketches of Hogan just laying around. My Catholic guilt saved me from doing the wrong thing. Must be worth a fortune.
. Must be worth a fortune.
magicmarker
New
I got a lot out of the section on the grip and the idea of the 'inside' muscles powering the swing. The rest was just okay.
I will say one thing, it was a hell of a lot easier to understand than the 7th edition of The Golfing Machine, I don't know how different each edition is, I've only read the one.
I will say one thing, it was a hell of a lot easier to understand than the 7th edition of The Golfing Machine, I don't know how different each edition is, I've only read the one.
Have done the same for sure. I think Hogan's writings in Five Lessons on the waggle are brilliant, exceptional.
Billy McKinney
New
Kev, was it really Catholic guilt or was it because of your human decency?I house sat for Gardner Dickinson years ago and had a ton of original Ravielli graphite sketches of Hogan just laying around. My Catholic guilt saved me from doing the wrong thing
5 L is imo a solid guide, especially in how not to hook...not a definitive recipe--Larry Nelson's swing is about 66% different ingredients.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I am in the business of selling videos that folks can purchase and try the concepts themselves.
The ONLY WAY to really judge the quality of the product, is by observing folks who have tried to apply it.
I'd give 5 Lessons about a C+
It should be noted that HOGAN NEVER FELT IT TO BE "the book"....
He said if he wrote a book with all the info if would be a think as he could stretch his fingers.
"It'd be this thick"
The ONLY WAY to really judge the quality of the product, is by observing folks who have tried to apply it.
I'd give 5 Lessons about a C+
It should be noted that HOGAN NEVER FELT IT TO BE "the book"....
He said if he wrote a book with all the info if would be a think as he could stretch his fingers.
"It'd be this thick"
birly-shirly
New
I love the book - but I love it in the way that we don't always love the things that are good for us.
I think Hogan was brilliant in all sorts of ways, and I absolutely think that he was a brilliant marketer, as shown in how he organised and presented his book. The basic ideas of "fundamentals" - that a good, functional golfswing is the result of a small number of fairly simple, unambiguous moves; that these are the common denominators of all sound swings; that good players are doing the same things, even though they look different; that good golf benefits from a bit of underlying amateur physiology and mechanical thinking; that everyone is physically capable of performing the fundamentals; and the promise that everyone who does should be shooting regularly in the 70s - all these were brilliant, innovative and HIGHLY ATTRACTIVE.
The fact that not all of these may necessarily be true doesn't seem to have hurt sales of the book one ounce. The fact that these ideas were put forward with the authority of "the finest ballstriker to ever draw back a club" couldn't have hurt. I think Hogan brilliantly understood his own reputation and how it would infuse his book. In fact, I think lots of these ideas became part of a new template for what we expected from golf instruction for the next 50 odd years.
This thread got me thinking. Isn't 5L one of the best-selling golf titles of all time? And Hogan, who appears to have been a shrewd businessman, struck the deal to publish at the height of his fame. I wonder what the royalties were worth. In fact, I got to wondering whether Hogan didn't end up making more out of 5L than he did from either tournament winnings (which I think is likely), or from building a successful equipment manufacturer. If 5L was that much of a golden goose, then maybe it's no wonder that Hogan never did write the "inches thick" instruction book that Brian mentioned, or that he always defended the text, to the sacred letter, when any kid with an inclination to look up "supination" in the dictionary could see that certain sections were woefully inadequate.
I think Hogan was brilliant in all sorts of ways, and I absolutely think that he was a brilliant marketer, as shown in how he organised and presented his book. The basic ideas of "fundamentals" - that a good, functional golfswing is the result of a small number of fairly simple, unambiguous moves; that these are the common denominators of all sound swings; that good players are doing the same things, even though they look different; that good golf benefits from a bit of underlying amateur physiology and mechanical thinking; that everyone is physically capable of performing the fundamentals; and the promise that everyone who does should be shooting regularly in the 70s - all these were brilliant, innovative and HIGHLY ATTRACTIVE.
The fact that not all of these may necessarily be true doesn't seem to have hurt sales of the book one ounce. The fact that these ideas were put forward with the authority of "the finest ballstriker to ever draw back a club" couldn't have hurt. I think Hogan brilliantly understood his own reputation and how it would infuse his book. In fact, I think lots of these ideas became part of a new template for what we expected from golf instruction for the next 50 odd years.
This thread got me thinking. Isn't 5L one of the best-selling golf titles of all time? And Hogan, who appears to have been a shrewd businessman, struck the deal to publish at the height of his fame. I wonder what the royalties were worth. In fact, I got to wondering whether Hogan didn't end up making more out of 5L than he did from either tournament winnings (which I think is likely), or from building a successful equipment manufacturer. If 5L was that much of a golden goose, then maybe it's no wonder that Hogan never did write the "inches thick" instruction book that Brian mentioned, or that he always defended the text, to the sacred letter, when any kid with an inclination to look up "supination" in the dictionary could see that certain sections were woefully inadequate.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Obviously I was kidding. It was hard not to stare at those things and wonder what the heck they were doing just laying around.
I think of 5 lessons as I think of many books. They are written within a certain context, the parameters of which are defined by the author's experience; or their philosophy. We know from history that Mr. Hogan fought a HOOK. He became the great Ben Hogan when he conquered that hook. 5 Lessons details his conquest. Tapes and books are suggestions, do with them what you will. But if you want an objective opinion on YOUR experience, see a good teacher in person.
yep that's true. i like that nicklaus with "golf my way" and woods with "how i play golf" didn't proclaim their methods would work for everyone. just what worked for them. that's not the case with 5L, it is written in a style that implies that there is only one "correct" way to swing.
There is deep knowledge which the book scratched the surface of that is under-appreciated/misunderstood to this day.
A sure sign of pushing the envelope is that not everyone will agree with you. In fact the vast majority will think you are wrong. Ironic, considering the results Hogan has achieved.
I used to be guilty of dismissing Hogan's 5L as an old-fashioned tome that is surely out of date in view of the progress that modern knowledge of the swing and technology has made. I recall hearing Sir Nick making the 'battling a hook' and 'created a nation of slicers' comment on golf channel.
As I picked up the game, I made my usual rounds of magazine articles, various golf books, videos on youtube, etc. Thought I built up a pretty good library of knowledge about the swing. I could discuss accumulators, geometric oriented linear force, D-plane until the cows came home.
Until I picked up 5L and studied it in conjunction with working on my swing. Wow. What a revelation. Thought I knew the golf swing pretty well after all the study and work I'd put in before hand, and yet, this small and thin book still blew me away.
Personally I guess in a way I should be thankful I had listened to the naysayers and put off discovering this book until I had gathered enough knowledge and went down enough dead-ends to fully appreciate how profound this book is.
I also agree with the point made in some previous posts, it's not an easy pick-up and fix your swing band-aid despite its deceptive and sublimely understated brevity and wonderfully done illustrations. In contrast with for instance, GD articles which are designed to target the masses with limited time/energy to devote to the subject. And yes, it is a tightly 'coupled' method, to use a software writing term. As in, it is not easy to isolate and implement chosen elements and expect concurrent gain.
But in my humble opinion and my personal experience of the book thus far, to those who persevere, remarkable insights and discoveries await.
A sure sign of pushing the envelope is that not everyone will agree with you. In fact the vast majority will think you are wrong. Ironic, considering the results Hogan has achieved.
I used to be guilty of dismissing Hogan's 5L as an old-fashioned tome that is surely out of date in view of the progress that modern knowledge of the swing and technology has made. I recall hearing Sir Nick making the 'battling a hook' and 'created a nation of slicers' comment on golf channel.
As I picked up the game, I made my usual rounds of magazine articles, various golf books, videos on youtube, etc. Thought I built up a pretty good library of knowledge about the swing. I could discuss accumulators, geometric oriented linear force, D-plane until the cows came home.
Until I picked up 5L and studied it in conjunction with working on my swing. Wow. What a revelation. Thought I knew the golf swing pretty well after all the study and work I'd put in before hand, and yet, this small and thin book still blew me away.
Personally I guess in a way I should be thankful I had listened to the naysayers and put off discovering this book until I had gathered enough knowledge and went down enough dead-ends to fully appreciate how profound this book is.
I also agree with the point made in some previous posts, it's not an easy pick-up and fix your swing band-aid despite its deceptive and sublimely understated brevity and wonderfully done illustrations. In contrast with for instance, GD articles which are designed to target the masses with limited time/energy to devote to the subject. And yes, it is a tightly 'coupled' method, to use a software writing term. As in, it is not easy to isolate and implement chosen elements and expect concurrent gain.
But in my humble opinion and my personal experience of the book thus far, to those who persevere, remarkable insights and discoveries await.
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