Best Approach to Improvement......
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Redgoat
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300drive,
I would take them in the order they occur. If the set-up needs work(which it almost always does) start there. Then proceed to the takeaway issues(poor pivor, overactive hands and arms,etc.), the top, transition, and then finally impact.
IMO, starting with short shots and drills to ensure a flat left wrist at impact will not produce long term results if the set-up is poor, pivot is weak, and the club is not on plane.
Working with video on one specific thing at a time has produced results for my students.
One last thing, if you can't do it slow, you can't do it fast. Try to exaggerate until you have overdone the fix, don't be afraid to get bizarre.
Redgoat
I would take them in the order they occur. If the set-up needs work(which it almost always does) start there. Then proceed to the takeaway issues(poor pivor, overactive hands and arms,etc.), the top, transition, and then finally impact.
IMO, starting with short shots and drills to ensure a flat left wrist at impact will not produce long term results if the set-up is poor, pivot is weak, and the club is not on plane.
Working with video on one specific thing at a time has produced results for my students.
One last thing, if you can't do it slow, you can't do it fast. Try to exaggerate until you have overdone the fix, don't be afraid to get bizarre.
Redgoat
300 wrote:
"I'm a 15 handicap who has identified the following "issues""
I have proved many times, I'm not very good when offering advice to golfers especially without seeing their swing. However I do know most golfers have little idea of the actual problems plagueing their swings.
Self reports, as are eye witness reports of crime scenes, etc., are known to be unreliable.
What if (a question to all participating) 300 hit shots from the following position, using the procedure outlined? Would his report about his successes and failures help those offering advice to refine that help?
300, place your feet so heels are almost touching, take your normal stance except for feet. Swing your S.W. only to the point where hands are waist high. Hit 10 yard shots, then 20 yard shots and so on until you can no longer maintain balance or hit solid shots.
Report your results, describe what happens, where the ball goes........
I'm not offering advice. Just asking the question, would the experiment help 300 define his action?
"I'm a 15 handicap who has identified the following "issues""
I have proved many times, I'm not very good when offering advice to golfers especially without seeing their swing. However I do know most golfers have little idea of the actual problems plagueing their swings.
Self reports, as are eye witness reports of crime scenes, etc., are known to be unreliable.
What if (a question to all participating) 300 hit shots from the following position, using the procedure outlined? Would his report about his successes and failures help those offering advice to refine that help?
300, place your feet so heels are almost touching, take your normal stance except for feet. Swing your S.W. only to the point where hands are waist high. Hit 10 yard shots, then 20 yard shots and so on until you can no longer maintain balance or hit solid shots.
Report your results, describe what happens, where the ball goes........
I'm not offering advice. Just asking the question, would the experiment help 300 define his action?
quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee
quote:Originally posted by 300Drive
quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee
quote:Originally posted by 300Drive
Flat left wrist, lag, on-plane, start with chip shots....OK, but, how, specifically, is that going to stop me from pulls or overswinging, quiet my leg drive and improve tempo (I see how it will stop the chicken wing thing).
You guys are great at theory....I am bringing you a practical case to deal with and all you can do is throw out the "typical" TGM dogma...Thanks, but, i am afraid that what what you have suggested is overly simplistic in terms of where I am and what is needed....I'll gladly see a PGA pro for a long-term solution.
(Your recommendations can be given to all mid-handicappers which not a personalized approach. What if I hooked the ball?, sliced the ball, didnt get enough distance, had a sway, could not coil well, etc....same recommendations??? What a joke!
Shame on you, you listened to nothing.
This is not theory. This real life. From what I read you need to learn how to swing. You come over the top, have a chicken arm which means who have little control of the clubface, over active legs so your pivot sux, what else? NO tempo, great and you get testy? If you learn the third Imperative, you will never come over the top. Keep a flat left wrist, you can produce hing actions to draw, fade or shape any shot. These aren't ten min drills to cover up a bad swing. Find a good pga pro, I hope does I go job. But my advice is to learn the basics and read Brian's lessons to begin with. Sorry if I insulted your sensibilities.
Believe me, I have never, and will never, feel insulted by anyone on a forum. Shame on you for not understanding my real question, which is, regardless of anyones issues (all mid-handicappers have multiple issues, I happen to know what mine are and have listed them, doesnet mean I am an idiot and dont know what I want to happen, but, its a game to be learned, so.....I am learning, I dont know it all and I cant do it all or I'd be Tiger on Tour and not talking to you!).
If anyone has 2-3 swing flaws, what is the best approach to correcting them. Thats the question. It a question of efficiencty and process, if you understand that. I am really not asking anyone for suggestions on correcting the swing flaws, rather, what is the best process of fixing ANY swing flaw? If its drills, fine, 1 or 2 drills, over say 3-6 months. Do you "correct" one swing flaw at a time or do you work on more. If not drills, then what? It a question of process and efficiency, regardless of the flaws.
By the way, I have been playing golf for 5 years and to condem a mid-handicapper as simply "not knowing how to swing" is stupid. Those types of statements suggest that if you have flaws or are not scratch, you simply suck....All mid-handicappers suck...so, whats your point?
Anyway, still looking for someone who is a "Teacher" to recommend how they approach helping there students become efficient at correcting there swing flaws...
Thanks for any reply.
Never said you sux, I said you didn't read the suggestions and just seem to want another quick fix, a few drills. With several swing flaws, it would be wise to build a good one swing, not attack TGM. Do what you want but the key to a good swing is one this forum, if you look for it and put the knowleadge to practice. If not, try a stronger grip, think about hitting a spike a few feet to the right of your right foot to prevent over the top or pull a rope to ring a bell,this well keep the club in line, say fred-die coup-les while swinging for tempo, throw a club down the target line to get a feeling of releaseing the club and arms to keep the elbow from being a chicken. Are those the band aids you want? Give them a try. TGM isn't theory, its feel through mechanics.
Oh Boy, low IQ!!!!....AGAIN, my question was and is one of process. AGAIN, not looking for any suggestions on how to fix my identified issues, but, looking for an effeiceint process to improve ANY issues....
No not looking for ANY Band Aids or any other ideas on how to fix my issues....I didnt attack TGM, I addressed those who espouse to be teachers who couldnt offer suggetions on how ANYONE should more efficiently address ANY ISSUES, not just mine. Afterall, TGM or any other "body of knowledge" is of little use if those who know it arent able to convey to the learner best practices on learning....
6bee1dee...chip, pitch, punch....I'm a TGM instructor
....give me a break.quote:Originally posted by brianman
FOR 300...
1) A pull is my miss (over the top)
Brian: Did you know that you are supposed to LOOK AT and HIT the inside-back of the ball?
If you can't do it by looking and aiming you are using an incorrect shoulder 'motion.'
Try to make your left shoulder go UP to start the downswing and make your right shoulder go toward the same inside-back of the ball as the clubhead should.
If still can't...make sure your TAILBONE is closer to the target then your NECK BONE at and THROUGH impact.
2) I overswing at the top (right arm bent too far, some right wrist break-down)
Brian: Make sure you feel like your right arm is stretching your left arm away from you the WHOLE SWING.
3) Sometimes have the "chicken wing" blocking action (probably as a way of compensating for the pulls and trying to get the path to go further right than left)
Brian: ROLL your left forearm AS FAR AS YOU CAN through impact to two/thirds of the way to the finish. Don't worry about hooks or pulls, if these result, make sure you are doing #1 and #2 above AND your HANDS stay ahead of your clubhead through imapct!!
4) Elvis Presley has nothing on me....overactive leg drive on the forward swing
Brian: Sounds like you need to read this month article...THE PIVOT.
Other than that, make sure your feet ARE MOVED...they don't MOVE...get it?
5) Tempo
Brian: To control your speed practice this drill...Make a full swing FULL SPEED, then make a full swing 3/4ths speed (ball should fly 3/4ths distance, do the same for 1/2 and 1/4th...very difficult...but it WORKS!
Give us the report!
Brian, thanks very much..Will update on procress in a month.
Hall Of Fame post!![quote:Originally posted by 300Drive
quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee
quote:Originally posted by 300Drive
quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee
quote:Originally posted by 300Drive
Flat left wrist, lag, on-plane, start with chip shots....OK, but, how, specifically, is that going to stop me from pulls or overswinging, quiet my leg drive and improve tempo (I see how it will stop the chicken wing thing
You guys are great at theory....I am bringing you a practical case to deal with and all you can do is throw out the "typical" TGM dogma...Thanks, but, i am afraid that what what you have suggested is overly simplistic in terms of where I am and what is needed....I'll gladly see a PGA pro for a long-term solution.
(Your recommendations can be given to all mid-handicappers which not a personalized approach. What if I hooked the ball?, sliced the ball, didnt get enough distance, had a sway, could not coil well, etc....same recommendations??? What a joke!
Shame on you, you listened to nothing.
This is not theory. This real life. From what I read you need to learn how to swing. You come over the top, have a chicken arm which means who have little control of the clubface, over active legs so your pivot sux, what else? NO tempo, great and you get testy? If you learn the third Imperative, you will never come over the top. Keep a flat left wrist, you can produce hing actions to draw, fade or shape any shot. These aren't ten min drills to cover up a bad swing. Find a good pga pro, I hope does I go job. But my advice is to learn the basics and read Brian's lessons to begin with. Sorry if I insulted your sensibilities.
Believe me, I have never, and will never, feel insulted by anyone on a forum. Shame on you for not understanding my real question, which is, regardless of anyones issues (all mid-handicappers have multiple issues, I happen to know what mine are and have listed them, doesnet mean I am an idiot and dont know what I want to happen, but, its a game to be learned, so.....I am learning, I dont know it all and I cant do it all or I'd be Tiger on Tour and not talking to you!).
If anyone has 2-3 swing flaws, what is the best approach to correcting them. Thats the question. It a question of efficiencty and process, if you understand that. I am really not asking anyone for suggestions on correcting the swing flaws, rather, what is the best process of fixing ANY swing flaw? If its drills, fine, 1 or 2 drills, over say 3-6 months. Do you "correct" one swing flaw at a time or do you work on more. If not drills, then what? It a question of process and efficiency, regardless of the flaws.
By the way, I have been playing golf for 5 years and to condem a mid-handicapper as simply "not knowing how to swing" is stupid. Those types of statements suggest that if you have flaws or are not scratch, you simply suck....All mid-handicappers suck...so, whats your point?
Anyway, still looking for someone who is a "Teacher" to recommend how they approach helping there students become efficient at correcting there swing flaws...
Thanks for any reply.
Never said you sux, I said you didn't read the suggestions and just seem to want another quick fix, a few drills. With several swing flaws, it would be wise to build a good one swing, not attack TGM. Do what you want but the key to a good swing is one this forum, if you look for it and put the knowleadge to practice. If not, try a stronger grip, think about hitting a spike a few feet to the right of your right foot to prevent over the top or pull a rope to ring a bell,this well keep the club in line, say fred-die coup-les while swinging for tempo, throw a club down the target line to get a feeling of releaseing the club and arms to keep the elbow from being a chicken. Are those the band aids you want? Give them a try. TGM isn't theory, its feel through mechanics.
Oh Boy, low IQ!!!!....AGAIN, my question was and is one of process. AGAIN, not looking for any suggestions on how to fix my identified issues, but, looking for an effeiceint process to improve ANY issues....
No not looking for ANY Band Aids or any other ideas on how to fix my issues....I didnt attack TGM, I addressed those who espouse to be teachers who couldnt offer suggetions on how ANYONE should more efficiently address ANY ISSUES, not just mine. Afterall, TGM or any other "body of knowledge" is of little use if those who know it arent able to convey to the learner best practices on learning....
6bee1dee...chip, pitch, punch....I'm a TGM instructor
]quote:Originally posted by 300Drive
I'm a 15 handicap who has identified the following "issues" with the help of a local PGA professional. My question is, what is the best "approach" to improving and how many drills should I use per issue?
1) A pull is my miss (over the top)
2) I overswing at the top (right arm bent too far, some right wrist break-down)
3) Sometimes</u> have the "chicken wing" blocking action (probably as a way of compensating for the pulls and trying to get the path to go further right than left)
4) Elvis Presley has nothing on me....overactive leg drive on the forward swing
5) Tempo
Other than that, I'd be scratch
I probabaly have identified 2-3 drills for Each of the items above....Should I focus on one issue above until it is "ok" then move to the next (say it take 3-6 months)? Should I work on 2 to 3 issues for the next 3- 6 months, alternating one practice session to each? Should I identifiy one drill for that problem and master it, or should I use multiple drills for each issue? What is a good EFFECTIVE approach?
Any reply would help....Thanks
This is your original post. You asked for help, it was a long list and I assumed it was your swing. I suggested you read and download Brian's instruction, it doesn't get any better than that. Low on theory and LOADED with usefull practical information. A 15 handicap with your problems could use an overhaul. But you just want drills, how low IQ of me. (believe me-- must don't have it in them to say that face to face to me) You said any reply would help, guess not. On the FGI, you post the same thing and insult a posted for helping but being long winded, you are a class act.
And now you say you are an AI? [B)] Hope not.
If every player in the country were to follow item #1 of Brian's list for 300, the avg handicap would surely fall like a sky diver. It's amazing how many PGA certified instructors teach hitting the back of the ball with a square clubface, which guarantees that the slicer will morph into a puller under this "pro guidance". Even Nicklaus and Hogan give this advice. I wonder how many current Tour players think they are doing this?
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