JohnThomas1
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The second sequence was in Leadbetter's book analysing a heap of swings mate.
Best flipper on Tour?
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The second sequence was in Leadbetter's book analysing a heap of swings mate.
JohnThomas1
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"but his left wrist could prolly be flatter through and especially past Impact"
This isn't flipping? I am pretty sure it's a little flip in the Cook book, pardon the pun hehehe. Norman is the same as stated by others in this thread. I wonder if there's more footage on the net.
mrodock
New
John,
From the picture I saw in Perfect Your Swing</u>it looks as though Jose flipped with the driver. I guess I couldn't have imagined it. I have some good video of him from the 2005 British Open so once I am done with school or not in the homework mood I will take a look at it. I guess I couldn't have imagined Jose to have anything but a great impact position. I suppose this could explain his inconsistencies, particularly with the driver.
From the picture I saw in Perfect Your Swing</u>it looks as though Jose flipped with the driver. I guess I couldn't have imagined it. I have some good video of him from the 2005 British Open so once I am done with school or not in the homework mood I will take a look at it. I guess I couldn't have imagined Jose to have anything but a great impact position. I suppose this could explain his inconsistencies, particularly with the driver.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
I'm sure you could find pics of every pro at some point "flipping" that clubhead. It can and does happen to the best of us.
The difference is that most of them do it a whole lot LESS than most amatuers.
Hell, remember that awesome "Dual at doral" last year with Tiger and Phil? When Tiger tried to drive the green in that 4th round he threw it away too and flipped at it. Saw it on Tivo, happens to everyone.
The difference is that most of them do it a whole lot LESS than most amatuers.
Hell, remember that awesome "Dual at doral" last year with Tiger and Phil? When Tiger tried to drive the green in that 4th round he threw it away too and flipped at it. Saw it on Tivo, happens to everyone.
Made me pull out Leadbetter's book Lessons From The Golf Greats.
In the writeup, Leadbetter says at impact the back of the JMO's left hand is perfectly square to the target.
In the best pic of this (6), the divot has already flown 3 feet forward and the RH is still bent. I think flipping will necessarily have the RH losing it's bend, so that is one key to look at when the image of the LH is not clear about is going on with the position.
In the writeup, Leadbetter says at impact the back of the JMO's left hand is perfectly square to the target.
In the best pic of this (6), the divot has already flown 3 feet forward and the RH is still bent. I think flipping will necessarily have the RH losing it's bend, so that is one key to look at when the image of the LH is not clear about is going on with the position.
JohnThomas1
New
From what we read Jose has always fought a hook and hits pretty low, Cook talks about flipping to hold off a hook.
JohnThomas1
New
For sure Jim, but i really do think Jose has a lil flip in most swings. Or did. He has the talent to get away with it i guess.
JohnThomas1
New
I may be wrong here but by my guesses if you look at picture 5 you might see that you are not looking at the divot flying, that piece of grass was there already. The ball has just been contacted and the club is just hitting low point about to take a divot. The ball is at his left little toe so the divot cannot be in front of that.
I agree that his left hand is perfectly square to the target, but that in no means makes it flat. I very definitely see a bend in the left wrist (This is all the more telling considering his very weak grip)and the shaft is ahead of his left forearm line. I also think that the next pic indicates that he is releasing under.
JT, my pic 5 has him practically just beginning the downswing. But in pic6, I beleive the ball is gone (unlike pic 6 wtih Azinger). And if what I said about the divot corresponds to your pic 6 then I agree you are right about that grass that was there. JMO in pic 6 (at that point) has a bent left arm.
These pics are too coarse and have wrong timing to be definitive. Plus, with the way he's been playing lately having been tightened up by Butch, I'd doubt it's still there if it was.
These pics are too coarse and have wrong timing to be definitive. Plus, with the way he's been playing lately having been tightened up by Butch, I'd doubt it's still there if it was.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
On the new Brianmanzella.com site, our own Mike Finney will be putting "up" a lot of the swings he has taken over the years.
Jose....we got Jose.
Jose....we got Jose.
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
How about going ahead and putting it in the sequence section.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
When then he isn't too bright because flipping drastically closes the face and creates that hook or as brian has dubbed, the leakage hook
JohnThomas1
New
Hey thanks for the reply!!! My pic 6 of Jose has the ball exactly in front of his left toes on it's journey to the green no doubt. Actually i didn't know he was working with Butch, how long have they been hanging for?
JohnThomas1
New
I'm not sure, Jose holds off the clubface and releases under from the pics i have seen, this would help a hook i think. He doesn't rotate that much thru the ball imo.
I'm not knocking Jose's swing goodness, he's one hell of a golfer. I just think there's a little flip, which could well be gone.
>>Actually i didn't know he was working with Butch, how long have they been hanging for?<<
Here's a story from 2002 about Butch and JMO.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ma...ir25.xml&sSheet=/sport/2002/02/24/ixgolf.html
This one mentions 2001
http://www.thegolfchannel.com/core.aspx?page=15100&select=5416
Btw, yes pic 6 does have ball by left toe, hadn't seen it. I just think unless we see impact it's not a fair call. Plenty of other players' swing pics with the ball 1-3 feet out have the club not in an inline condition with the left arm. Maybe Lead was misleading with his comments, but I was assuming not.
Here's a story from 2002 about Butch and JMO.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ma...ir25.xml&sSheet=/sport/2002/02/24/ixgolf.html
This one mentions 2001
http://www.thegolfchannel.com/core.aspx?page=15100&select=5416
Btw, yes pic 6 does have ball by left toe, hadn't seen it. I just think unless we see impact it's not a fair call. Plenty of other players' swing pics with the ball 1-3 feet out have the club not in an inline condition with the left arm. Maybe Lead was misleading with his comments, but I was assuming not.
birdie_man
New
I have to say now.....
His left wrist looks like it could be flatter....in the few sequences I've seen anyway (both are driver sequences...some guys don't have as Flat of a wrist with driver....less forward Aiming Point....less Hitting....more forward ball position.....more trying to hit UP sometimes...lol).
I like the motion in general.....the setup, the plane, the tempo, the pivot, etc....lots of real good stuff (although I'm not a huge fan of the Twistaway-ish clubface control...with long clubs mostly I mean....he's doing it in the sequence I have of him anyway- the Croker "Swing of the Future" issue)...
....but looking back at this sequence his left wrist could prolly be flatter.....at Impact. And Golf Digest chinced out on the pre-Impact frames so I can't see any part of the Release to see what's going on prior to Impact. It's not a Snap Release tho anyway.
He's apparently a real real good iron player though....I'd really really have to assume his left wrist looks beautiful at Impact with one of those iron shots.
He looks real Hogan-ish at the Top and in the Start Down too actually......the pivot....the increase of (Accum) Lag.
His left wrist looks like it could be flatter....in the few sequences I've seen anyway (both are driver sequences...some guys don't have as Flat of a wrist with driver....less forward Aiming Point....less Hitting....more forward ball position.....more trying to hit UP sometimes...lol).
I like the motion in general.....the setup, the plane, the tempo, the pivot, etc....lots of real good stuff (although I'm not a huge fan of the Twistaway-ish clubface control...with long clubs mostly I mean....he's doing it in the sequence I have of him anyway- the Croker "Swing of the Future" issue)...
....but looking back at this sequence his left wrist could prolly be flatter.....at Impact. And Golf Digest chinced out on the pre-Impact frames so I can't see any part of the Release to see what's going on prior to Impact. It's not a Snap Release tho anyway.
He's apparently a real real good iron player though....I'd really really have to assume his left wrist looks beautiful at Impact with one of those iron shots.
He looks real Hogan-ish at the Top and in the Start Down too actually......the pivot....the increase of (Accum) Lag.
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
Where did you get the Golf Digest sequence? They do not have it on their website.
birdie_man
New
Ya I have the mag.
It's Peter Croker's cover story actually.
"Your Swing of the Future."
April 1995
It's Peter Croker's cover story actually.
"Your Swing of the Future."
April 1995
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