BLOG: The 2nd Biggest Lie Ever Told in Golf Instruction History - by Brian Manzella

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Brian Manzella

Administrator
What is Golf Instruction? What should it be?

Before I answer these important questions, let's get some facts on the table.

Only 11% of all avid golfers—a group that includes those who play a dozen or so rounds a year or more—have taken a lesson in the last three seasons.

Ouch!

So, what is Golf Instruction in the year 2010?

Of the 40,000 or so "golf pros" who give lessons on the planet, only about 10% of them give more than a few lessons a year. My guess is the number of lessons to be in that top 10% of amount of lessons given group, is a around 60.

So, of that group of four thousand teachers, what are they actually doing in a lesson.

About 1250 of these teachers just watch the student and give some general tips.

About 1250 of these teachers use a video camera, and maybe a line drawing program, and they teach "spine angle" or "shaft plane."

About 1250 of these teachers subscribe to a method, like one plane/two plane, stack & tilt, Leadbetter, Haney, morad, tgm-lite, or tgm-lieteral. Maybe on half of these folks are very dogmatic in their approach. Most use a camera, some use other technologies.

That leaves about 250 teachers world-wide who use some technology more than a regular old video camera, don't teach a "method," and give a least a couple of lessons a week.

Whoa!

Out of these 4000 semi-active or more teachers, only about 1000 of them give lessons as their primary income.

That 1000 is comprised of about 850 method teachers, leaving maybe 150 serious teacher in the world who don't primarily teach a method.

Of the that 1000, 95%+ of the method teachers want to see students several times to get them to do the method. This includes folks like the Golf Tec company. 80% of the non method teachers probably would like to sell a package to be able to affect the golfer through whatever it is they believe in.

That math leaves about 100 teachers in the world, who are serious about their craft, and will just even believe they could help a student a bunch in just a lesson or two.

Teachers of the World, you are missing why folks take golf lessons.

Most golfers have never hit a draw. Most golfers have multiple marks on top of their drivers. Most golfers have no idea how to hit a bunker shot beyond an open face and hitting behind the ball, and most golfers have no idea what to do when they putt.

Most golfers have never been able to rid themselves of one serious malady, like a duck-hook, a shank, or thin shots.

Teachers, you really need to learn how to do these things.

Quick.

The vast majority of serious lesson givers in the world do not believe that you can give a chap a lesson and fix their slice for good. Or teach them to chip. Or whatever in one or two lessons.

They say anything that is done in that much time is a and-aid at best, or total bull turds at worse.

In my opinion, it is The Second Biggest Lie Ever Told in Golf Instruction History.

A perfect example is a lesson to I gave recently to Neil "Shot Limit" Courtney.

He took one lesson from me a year ago, and if I recall, I looked at him one other time to make sure things were in order.

He was shooting around 105 when he came to see me, with a swing that was at least 10° inside-out.

He told me before his lesson this week that he now breaks 90 consistently, and has shot 82.

Wait a minute!

I thought that wouldn't and couldn't happen.

Well it did.

You just have to know what you are doing.

You see, a method teacher, maybe would have spotted the overly inside-out path, but they would have prescribed a swing that was "perfect," by their theory.

I knew, and know better.

I gave him a pattern that not only would work better in very short order, but one that would "blow up" the old one.

It worked better and so completely blew up the old swing that there was zero remnants of it when he showed up.

We then upgraded from that point, with all the same ideas that I used before, just closer to the "middle of the Manzella Matrix."

Neil does not plan to take another lesson until the summer.

As I travel around the country, when I see folks who are working with me for the first time, and ask them to tell me about their games, I often here something like this:

"I used to be a 15 handicapper and a slicer, but I bought Never Slice Again and now I am an 8, and I want to get closer to scratch."

No lessons. No band-aids.

Kust know how.

That's all most folks need.

Or want.

Sure, I really enjoy working with a golfer over a long period of time. Gave my first lesson to David Toms in 1988. Gave me last one to him in May. Gave my fist lesson to Lindsay Gahm 10 years ago. Kevin Shields going on five years. Jim Markovitz, four. Tom Bartlett's first lesson with me, 1986.

So, in a long amount of time, you can move mountains and eat elephants.

But, in 1980, I gave my good pal Todd Nunez a 10 minute putting lesson.

He had no idea what he was doing.

To this day, Todd is an exceptional putter.

You see folks, that's is what is called teaching.

:cool:
 
good teacher

just let me interject one thought......btw ( nice lsu win last night)

Brian lots of people everywhere, on this site and golfers everywhere...want to improve

that's a given....ie. I would love to take Laura out for fine dining...i can't afford it...but we do go out

would i like to be able to afford 200 dollars an hour (your road fee) sure i would... can I? no i can not

I want to improve but if i work 20 hours @ $10 an hour...2 1/2 days of work for a 1 hour lesson..not poss.

You are correct most teachers don't do a good job..(IMO) and i have seen all kinds...

you are a very fair person your specials are affordable for a lot of folks..but not me

I am not complaining at all... I am glad you are there for those that CAN....I just wish there were

more good teachers at (what i consider reasonable cost). caveat........you are worth more then you charge

but you charge more then I am worth (j/k

h
 
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There's only one problem there's over 300 tour pro's out there so somebodys teaching methods or a craft correctly. Tiger's had 4 coaches so far pretty good! Teaching is a method! Brian you make it sound like no teacher has ever helped a 30 hdcp like your example before i can count hundreds of stories from amatuers who claim there pro got them down 20 strokes or better with 1to 5 lessons. Are there bad teachers out there of course same thing in every school system.Just because someone dosen't have Trackman dosen't mean he cant teach- Golf records still stand today from yesteryear Grand Slam , more than 60 tour victories, 11 in a row , Miller's 63, etc etc cmon trackman isn't gonna break those records. Isn't the whole idea to make the player better than when he started and to understand there swing.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
There's only one problem there's over 300 tour pro's out there so somebodys teaching methods or a craft correctly. Tiger's had 4 coaches so far pretty good! Teaching is a method! Brian you make it sound like no teacher has ever helped a 30 hdcp like your example before i can count hundreds of stories from amatuers who claim there pro got them down 20 strokes or better with 1to 5 lessons. Are there bad teachers out there of course same thing in every school system.Just because someone dosen't have Trackman dosen't mean he cant teach- Golf records still stand today from yesteryear Grand Slam , more than 60 tour victories, 11 in a row , Miller's 63, etc etc cmon trackman isn't gonna break those records. Isn't the whole idea to make the player better than when he started and to understand there swing.

I am not trying to be mean here, but did you make one single point?

The LIE is that all GOOD EFFECT from one or two lessons is because of BAND-AIDS or BS.

I think I made my point pretty well.

Can you dispute it?
 
S

SteveT

Guest
Brian ... I think you are 'guiding' as well as 'teaching'. It is a physical game.

Your use of TrackMan obviously provides a valuable tool to quantify golfswing results. Your teaching is the qualitative factor that separates you from all the other teachers.

What I have difficulty appreciating is how those you teach seem to possess exceptional kinesthetic capabilities since they seem to absorb your lesson completely and are able to do what you have told them to do.

What do you tell them that helps create such success?
 
Brian,
you could not be more correct!
I have stated this a thousand times but when a teacher knows what he or she is doing the student gets it quick!
the best lessons I have ever had were with you and I can point out how fast we made adjustments
first was in that monsoon in at PGA reserve in Florida, it was coming down in buckets (I have posted the video on this site) and we were soaked under a canopy. you gave me a few little instructions and an explanation to why and in 3 swings I got it!
Second was in Naples, I was hitting a big, big draw, we got on track man and after a few swings you sent Will into the pro shop and got a 2 degree flatter iron and with a minor adjustment on path I was hitting straight or fades and lastly my personal favorite was in Long Island when you gave me "dig to China and Back extension" to increase my VSP and get rid of a hook under pressure.
3 lessons over 2 years, actual time for corrections about 10 minutes, cost $1200, value of education and enlightenment priceless!
Ric
 

ZAP

New
Brian ... I think you are 'guiding' as well as 'teaching'. It is a physical game.

Your use of TrackMan obviously provides a valuable tool to quantify golfswing results. Your teaching is the qualitative factor that separates you from all the other teachers.

What I have difficulty appreciating is how those you teach seem to possess exceptional kinesthetic capabilities since they seem to absorb your lesson completely and are able to do what you have told them to do.

What do you tell them that helps create such success?

Brian does not possess some sort of magical formula to get people to do a "magic move" nor does he teach exceptional students all the time. During my lesson with Brian we spent almost the entire hour trying many different ways to get me to accomplish the same thing. What Brian has is a big tool box of knowledge and an ability to convey it. I went to Brian as skeptical as anyone who would ever go to him. Next time I watch my lesson I will count the number of times Brian said "we are not quite all the way there yet" and then tried something to build on the last thing we did. I hope to go see Brian again this winter. Without a sprained right thumb this time.
 
That 1000 is comprised of about 850 method teachers, leaving maybe 150 serious teacher in the world who don't primarily teach a method
Every teacher in the world is a method teacher- if you use science thats a method if you use stack n tilt thats a method , tgm thats a method, when you tell your son or daughter 2+2 is 4 whether you show them with apples or fingers or science its a method, sooner or later whatever changes you make its a method! Congrats on improving Neil by 30 strokes with 1 lesson have you improved every player by 30 strokes with 1 lesson of course not!

Teachers of the World, you are missing why folks take golf lessons
Does it really matter if they take 1 or maybe 5 lessons to fix the problem Brian. 40 lessons to fix a slice, thin shot etc etc is ridiculous agree but not everyone in the world is going to be fixed in 1 lesson. When i say fix that means never slice again after that 1 lesson.Can a majority be fixed in 1 lesson of course. Lets use yourself for example didnt you say you struggled on the greens in your last tournament with putting? Did you ever take a putting lesson in the 39yrs you been playing? What broke down?If you never took a putting lesson no problem i understand? Nerves dont buy it your not playing for a million dollars plus we all have had stress in our lives and no how to breath!.Brian why didnt you shot 3 68's was it a bad day, windy, luck,etc etc or maybe the swing broke done or maybe that 1 lesson dosent guarantee anything?​
 
A side point

There's only one problem there's over 300 tour pro's out there so somebodys teaching methods or a craft correctly. Tiger's had 4 coaches so far pretty good! Teaching is a method! Brian you make it sound like no teacher has ever helped a 30 hdcp like your example before i can count hundreds of stories from amatuers who claim there pro got them down 20 strokes or better with 1to 5 lessons. Are there bad teachers out there of course same thing in every school system.Just because someone dosen't have Trackman dosen't mean he cant teach- Golf records still stand today from yesteryear Grand Slam , more than 60 tour victories, 11 in a row , Miller's 63, etc etc cmon trackman isn't gonna break those records. Isn't the whole idea to make the player better than when he started and to understand there swing.

I would like to point out that my lesson a year ago was Trackman-less. Brian had not aquired that great peice of equipment yet.

Thanks again Bmanz!
 
One part of Siksta's, post was this, "Just because someone dosen't have Trackman dosen't mean he cant teach- Golf records still stand today from yesteryear Grand Slam , more than 60 tour victories, 11 in a row , Miller's 63, etc etc cmon trackman isn't gonna break those records."

The quality of the logic is equal to the quality of the spelling, and grammatics. Brian never said anything about Trackman in his post. I think that Brian got Trackman approximately one year ago.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
No Contest...

I really don't want to rain on your parade, siksta, but I don't use technology in every lesson, and I don't use hard science in every lesson either.

I don't have a method.

Either you must be a methiod teacher, or be pals with one.

Look, I said NOTHING in my blog entry about the QUALITY of those who teach a method.

THEY ARE SAYING SOMETHING ABOUT ME!!!!

Do you get it yet???

I am a counter-puncher.

They said you couldn't tell if someone was a good teacher if they could fix 10 folks before lunch, and if you did it was BAND-AID TEACHING.

It isn't, it is teaching ABILITY.

And teaching TALENT.


Teachers of the World, you are missing why folks take golf lessons

They don't take lessons because of the following reasons...

1. They know many folks who got worse taking lessons.

2. They took a lesson to fix their snap-hook, and the teacher changed EVERYTHING.

3. As a group, golf instructors are under-educated, under-trained, under-performing.


Again, just to repeat:

The thesis of the blog is NOT ALL QUICK FIXES LAST ONLY 5 MINUTES, and NOT ALL ARE BAND-AIDS.
 
Look, I said NOTHING in my blog entry about the QUALITY of those who teach a method.

THEY ARE SAYING SOMETHING ABOUT ME!!!!

Brian you have every right and intention to defend yourself i didn't realize they were saying that about your teaching. We should all agree we can help someone with 1 lesson although i agree again there are those out there who shouldn't be teaching or have bad info.I agree Teaching is a talent and teachers should never stop learning but unfortunately not all are in that category.The info you recieved from scientists is priceless and shouldn't be ignored but the way the teacher presents it by science or method also shouldn't be ignored unless its totally wrong.​
 

Jwat

New
I guess I don't understand why everytime Brian writes a thread or post, someone gets defensive and rambles about a bunch of nothing and makes zero points in their post.

I know from experience that you can show up to a lesson with Manzella shanking or thinning it and he will fix that shank in 10 min. NO BS!

2 years ago showed up for my first lesson with my dad for the 2 day package. (best bang for your buck) Anyways, been shanking it for a couple of months. Couldn't even advance the ball. Almost instantly was the shank cured. On the 3rd day went to TPC Louisiana and shot a 77 from the tips.

My background before Manzella:
1. 2 lessons with Steve Johnson (Haney) - he is the top instructor, worked with Tiger alot
2. 5 lessons with Brian Mahon (Haney) - another top instructor
3. 1 lesson with Greg Labelle (Butch Harmon) - teaches Cory Pavin and a couple other tour pros

Anyways, none of these guys came come close to fixing me as fast as Manzella if they did anything at all. Hell, Harmon told me personally I will never hit the ball consistantly because I am an ex-baseball player. Hmmm...., handicap around a 5 right now. Was a 15 when I went and saw them. You decide.
 

Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
Hell, Harmon told me personally I will never hit the ball consistantly because I am an ex-baseball player.

That kind of anecdotal "wisdom" is so silly...I can't believe people fall for that garbage. It is not because you were a baseball player, it's because you didn't have the right information for you.

That is like Nicklaus saying that no one can be a good ball striker unless they have "hitchhiker thumbs" like....anecdotally...he, Hogan & Woods have.

People can do whatever they want to do if they put their mind to it.
 
S

SteveT

Guest
Brian does not possess some sort of magical formula to get people to do a "magic move" nor does he teach exceptional students all the time. During my lesson with Brian we spent almost the entire hour trying many different ways to get me to accomplish the same thing. What Brian has is a big tool box of knowledge and an ability to convey it. I went to Brian as skeptical as anyone who would ever go to him. Next time I watch my lesson I will count the number of times Brian said "we are not quite all the way there yet" and then tried something to build on the last thing we did. I hope to go see Brian again this winter. Without a sprained right thumb this time.

Fair enough, but what I want to know is whether Brian ever told a student to practice their new move for a couple of weeks and then come back for another lesson to evaluate the progress.

It seems all we hear is how one lesson resolved the problem ... miraculously.

Based on what I know about body biomechanics, I tend to be skeptical about instant fixes, particularly for a high speed golf swing.

Edit: Opps ... I forgot to appreciate that some of Brian's students travel long distances for only one lesson ... which means Brian only has one chance to fix the problem. That' s puts Brian into a difficult situation for some.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Fair enough, but what I want to know is whether Brian ever told a student to practice their new move for a couple of weeks and then come back for another lesson to evaluate the progress.

Literally THOUSANDS of times.

It seems all we hear is how one lesson resolved the problem ... miraculously.

I teach so much better than some folks, they go out of their way to bury the video of it.

And pretty much everyone trips all over themselves when the phrase "teach-off" is uttered.

Based on what I know about body biomechanics, I tend to be skeptical about instant fixes, particularly for a high speed golf swing.

Based on what I know about real-world golf lessons, I'll GUARANTEE a "miraculous" result if the student has one of a few easy to fix maladies.

I forgot to appreciate that some of Brian's students travel long distances for only one lesson ... which means Brian only has one chance to fix the problem. That' s puts Brian into a difficult situation for some.

Not really.

Most folks that come to see me, do the "Manzella Special" where we can move mountains, and when on the road, most take two-hours, usually resulting in time for short game work.

So Mr. Unitas, do you think if you'd have started Super Bowl III, the Colts would have won?

"I'd didn't need that long."​
 
Here are my limited two data points. Brian never raised the topic of a return visit, in two weeks, or 2 years.
Mutually understood that geography gets in the way, and that I wasn't expecting some sort of total swing make over.

Took a lesson from Michael Jacobs. Same deal. Told him I might come back next time I'm on business in his area.
Frankly, even being somewhat nearby (Newburgh, NY) was a congested time consuming GPS challenge, but I made
it out there on a Saturday. I can just imagine a weekday, or a Sunday afternoon!

I also think that there has to be, from the Instructor's viewpoint, an assessment of what to do given the what
the student brings to the party. For instance, Jacobs was working hard on pivot with a young guy who preceded me on the lesson tee. During my lesson I brought up pivot. He told me that if he had a problem with my pivot he would have said so. I believe him. However, I think he was acknowledging that he had two hours to work on me,
and there more important things to focus on. He knew I wasn't coming back anytime soon.

I am a satisfied customer. I never expected a total fix.
 
Brian - your thesis, that some fixes can be both quick to apply and last longer than a week, seems reasonable. Modest, even.

I'm more interested in where your facts came from that you started your blog with.

Were there really 1250 golf professionals who took part in a survey and ticked the "I just watch my students and make general comments" box?

Did 625 pros really tell a market researcher that they teach a method and are "very dogmatic" in their approach?

Do we know whether there are another 625 golf pros who are only mildly dogmatic?
 

ZAP

New
Fair enough, but what I want to know is whether Brian ever told a student to practice their new move for a couple of weeks and then come back for another lesson to evaluate the progress.

It seems all we hear is how one lesson resolved the problem ... miraculously.

Based on what I know about body biomechanics, I tend to be skeptical about instant fixes, particularly for a high speed golf swing.

Edit: Opps ... I forgot to appreciate that some of Brian's students travel long distances for only one lesson ... which means Brian only has one chance to fix the problem. That' s puts Brian into a difficult situation for some.

I guess the word miraculous might not apply to my lesson. I hit the ball pretty well generally and just want to improve.
With the number of ideas Brian had for me I can only imagine what he might do with someone with a major swing flaw. In fact I would love to watch him work with a beginner or a high handicapper. Maybe I can talk my wife into going to NO with me in February. Thanks for the idea.

And I do not think Brian contends he fixes people permanently in an instant. I do think he can have someone making a decent pattern in a short period of time. He even joked about it when I made progress one swing into the lesson.
When(and I mean when) I take my second lesson with Brian I am showing up healthy and uninjured. I hope.
 

greenfree

Banned
For the record I did ammend and include "within reason" in a later post.

I assumed that would be implied...I am not delusional enough to think someone can hack their way to the PGA tour, just because they put their mind to it. I do however feel that someone can become a reasonable "for them" golfer if they are willing to put the time, effort and thought into becoming better, in other words "put their mind to it".

That is what I meant and I should have been more clear.

:cool:
I think most of us know what you meant and it doesn't really need clarification, at least not for me.
 
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