Body stall?

[jerry1967]

"...you have to RETAIN as much of the hip rotation as possible in the transition, sort of a back into the target move. They pick up some rotational velocity backing in, but can allow you to do THE THING you have to do besides retain some turn—get your center of pressure over toward your left foot."


"Jerry"...you will be picking up hip rotational velocity all the way to lead arm parallel....


That's Increasing speed....

Not "stalling"

does this apply to the sternum also?

 

[Brian Manzella]

At that point the torso is still accelerating.

 

[jewofgolf]

Brian, let's say you get to that "backed in" spot and your lead arm is about parallel and you haven't opened the hips yet. You are now in a good position to "do the thing".

In working on this, I have found that if I feel a bunch of (TGM term alert) right arm extensor action and a really "firm" left arm, I can get my hips to open at impact (because they have to or else I will hit it fat or swing out to the right a bunch).

Does this feeling of my arms describe the 3 forces you mentioned, or am I off base? If I just turn, I end up with square hips at impact. I'm trying to "do the thing", which is unnatural to me. I've stalled for my whole 15 years of golf to this point and never achieved a good pivot. You helped me a ton with our lesson toward getting there, though!

 

[Brian Manzella]

Brian, let's say you get to that "backed in" spot and your lead arm is about parallel and you haven't opened the hips yet.

I never said that. (bold is mine)

Please re-read.

In working on this, I have found that....I can get my hips to open at impact..."

There a is darn good reason for that.

YOU CAN"T REALLY TURN WITHOUT BACKING UP UNLESS YOUR COP GETS LEFT BY THIS TIME.

Can't.

Does this feeling of my arms describe the 3 forces you mentioned, or am I off base?

What 3 forces?

You mean 3 torques?

Ground reaction forces?

If I just turn, I end up with square hips at impact.

If you don't get your COP left of you COM and you "make sure" your hips don't back up—you CAN'T DO ANYTHING BUT STALL!!!

 

[wulsy]

Is there a point when the COP moves back to the right?

 

[wulsy]

oh, and can you get too far left with your COP?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Is there a point when the COP moves back to the right?

Not in a really good iron swing. Sometimes BARELY with a driver.

oh, and can you get too far left with your COP?

Yes, but it rarely happens in anything that looks like a golf swing.

 

[wulsy]

If it moves left continuously surely there would be a point at which it would be too far left? Or are there factors which prevent this from happening?

 

[Brian Manzella]

The REASON you are moving your COP to the left is to be able to get your vertical ground reaction force vector to the target side of your COM....you are pushing UP AND BACK toward your left ear to assist you with orienting and rotating....the push BACK AND UP requires horizontal force that will keep the the COP of drifting....if done correctly.

 

[wulsy]

The REASON you are moving your COP to the left is to be able to get your vertical ground reaction force vector to the target side of your COM....you are pushing UP AND BACK toward your left ear to assist you with orienting and rotating....the push BACK AND UP requires horizontal force that will keep the the COP of drifting....if done correctly.

Got it. Thanks.

 

[ZAP]

All this happens so we can get our arms and club from one side of our body to the other right?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Yes ZAP,

That should occur in any swing.

 

[wulsy]

Is their a point in the swing where the COP is moving in the opposite direction to the COM?

 

[cnadon]

I'll try to shoot a little video later today....

Just teasin'?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Is their a point in the swing where the COP is moving in the opposite direction to the COM?

So sorry for the delay.....

The simple answer is YES!


The reason is that the golfer is starting to push OUT ON THEIR RIGHT FOOT way, way, WAY! before the change of directions of the club or the pelvis!!


This HORIZONTAL FORCE will move the golfer's COM (center of mass) before the COP (center of pressure) moves.



The reason that the golfer is starting to push OUT ON THEIR RIGHT FOOT (horizontal force) well before the change of direction is to help slow the shifts and the backswing down.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Just teasin'?

Coming.....next day at the club.

 

[wulsy]

So sorry for the delay.....

The simple answer is YES!


The reason is that the golfer is starting to push OUT ON THEIR RIGHT FOOT way, way, WAY! before the change of directions of the club or the pelvis!!


This HORIZONTAL FORCE will move the golfer's COM (center of mass) before the COP (center of pressure) moves.



The reason that the golfer is starting to push OUT ON THEIR RIGHT FOOT (horizontal force) well before the change of direction is to help slow the shifts and the backswing down.

Thanks man, I'm liking this direction of thinking. What about after that? The COP passes the COM shortly after this, right? But does the COM keep going forward when the COP starts moving back? Or does the mass start to go right/back before the pressure gets right/back of it, like in the backswing you describe?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Thanks man, I'm liking this direction of thinking. What about after that? The COP passes the COM shortly after this, right? But does the COM keep going forward when the COP starts moving back? Or does the mass start to go right/back before the pressure gets right/back of it, like in the backswing you describe?

Good questions....one at a time....



The COP will work under and past the COM after the change of directions.....if it doesn't....OUCH....you fall flat on your face.

In the second and third question....where in the swing are we?

 

[wulsy]

OK, let's go one at a time. The COP is left of the COM shortly after transition. But (I'm talking about pre-impact) the COM still going left when the COP starts to move right, yes?

 

[Brian Manzella]

The COP can "back up" pre-impact....but I prefer it didn't.