Bounce-Greg Norman

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matt kluck

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It is about time that someone came out about the amount of bounce there is in the design of a wedge, the ability to perform shots because the extreme bounce angle on wedges prevents players from becoming good wedge players and have to resort to multiple club options complicating the shot process. I am amazed at the amount of amazement by the announcers as to how often certain players used a wedge to chip/pitch the ball from around the greens at Tiburon because of the tight lies. It is obvious that the wedges are the best option from around the green and that the degree of bounce prevents the best players from executing the proper shot which promotes short game theories that espouse multiple clubs when the best players of all time used wedges.
Have a great time using multiple clubs instead of becoming an expert with one?!!?! As one hall of fame player/teacher said, "Anyone who uses more than two wedges doesn't know how to us any of them!" Can you identify this teacher? Let me know.
Happy holidays and best wishes for good golf.
MK
 
mgranato

mgranato

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Couldn't disagree with that more. I reserve the right to hit more than 2 clubs from 125 - 225 yards, and I'm sure gonna do the same from 1 - 125.

That's like saying "anyone who needs more than two pairs of shoes doesn't know how to use them.". C'mon, 2 time major champion, you're better than that. Don't be a clubmunist.
 
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birly-shirly

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matt kluck said:
[...] "Anyone who uses more than two wedges doesn't know how to us any of them!"
Click to expand...

If we're only allowed two wedges, does the modern PW (formerly known as the 8 iron) count?

I'd also like to know what the "correct" amount of bounce on a wedge is.

And what "the proper shot" from around the green is.

Should make for a good thread.
 
golfbulldog

golfbulldog

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mgranato said:
Couldn't disagree with that more. I reserve the right to hit more than 2 clubs from 125 - 225 yards, and I'm sure gonna do the same from 1 - 125.
Click to expand...

You want a driver that hits right-to-left and a seperate one that hits left-to-right too??

Equipment companys have too much influence on the direction of the game and the way that it is being taught...and the courses that are being designed...golf is meant to be hard...it gets easier by developing skills... one of those skills ought to be creativity and distance control within 100 yards...

We should spend more on lessons and less on clubs ... golf is meant to be a difficult game... if that means less moeny entering into the game...so be it...tour pros will have to win to earn enough to retire at 40... teaching pros will have to teach well to earn a living....courses will have to spend less on fertiliser and on conditioning...courses will be more natural and "greener"....designers will design courses that are easy on the environment and cheaper to maintain... (you seen what has happened to Tiger Woods Dubhai venture?? Tiger Woods's Dubai dream evaporates in the desert | Lawrence Donegan | Sport | The Observer )...

The future of golf is within our control if we didn't fall hook, line and sinker for all the marketing PR...
 
golfbulldog

golfbulldog

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wedge bounce should reflect the predominant nature of the course you play - fairway grass length/texture, rough, and sand type... these vary enormously around the world yet a players tend to buy similar wedge bounce combos...
 
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softconsult

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"It is obvious that the wedges are the best option from around the green and that the degree of bounce prevents the best players from executing the proper shot which promotes short game theories that espouse multiple clubs when the best players of all time used wedges."

That's one long sentence.

"Obvious that the wedges are the best option." Not necessarily true. Just watched Arnie say that best tip he ever received was Jack telling him to use the putter off the green.

"Degree of bounce prevents". Come on, the Pro's and use normal folks can order up whatever bounce and grind we want.

"espouse multiple clubs". One size doesn't fit all. Both systems can work just fine and
for the person who doesn't have the time to practice, the multiple club approach maybe
more successful.
 
mgranato

mgranato

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golfbulldog said:
You want a driver that hits right-to-left and a seperate one that hits left-to-right too??

Equipment companys have too much influence on the direction of the game and the way that it is being taught...and the courses that are being designed...golf is meant to be hard...it gets easier by developing skills... one of those skills ought to be creativity and distance control within 100 yards...

We should spend more on lessons and less on clubs ... golf is meant to be a difficult game... if that means less moeny entering into the game...so be it...tour pros will have to win to earn enough to retire at 40... teaching pros will have to teach well to earn a living....courses will have to spend less on fertiliser and on conditioning...courses will be more natural and "greener"....designers will design courses that are easy on the environment and cheaper to maintain... (you seen what has happened to Tiger Woods Dubhai venture?? Tiger Woods's Dubai dream evaporates in the desert | Lawrence Donegan | Sport | The Observer )...

The future of golf is within our control if we didn't fall hook, line and sinker for all the marketing PR...
Click to expand...

The rules, both USGA and R&A, allow me and you to carry any combination of 14 conforming clubs we like. If I want one driver that hooks, one that slices, one that worm burns, one that skies, and 4 other that go in between - it still makes my bag a "golf bad". Oh, and it would also pretty much guarantee that I would need "creativity and distance control" with everything else in the bag.

Golf equipment, finally, is about customization. Does the sentiment behind your comment about left and right drivers hold true for your ability to play different shafts or different lofts? In an effort to keep this from going too off topic, I'll hold further comments about the direction of equipment and how their loud rock-n-roll is ruining our peaceful game... but I do have to ask, what era clubs are in your bag?;)
 
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softconsult

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"The future of golf is within our control if we didn't fall hook, line and sinker for all the marketing "

This is just silliness.

Let's see how this might play out. Golf needs new players to replace the one's who die or quit.
Television is a prime mechanism for getting people interested in learning the game. Television
is expensive and requires funding. Funding comes from advertising. Some of the advertising comes
from companies in the golf industry. They are advertising in order to sell product. It's called marketing.

So following your logic, golf marketing is evil and should be ignored. The result would be no golf courses,
because the number of players would decline overtime to a point where courses couldn't stay in business.
Golf equipment manufacturers would go out of business. I don't know if you noticed, but golf isn't exactly a growth industry in the western world.
 
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Lindsey Newman

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mgranato said:
Couldn't disagree with that more. I reserve the right to hit more than 2 clubs from 125 - 225 yards, and I'm sure gonna do the same from 1 - 125.

That's like saying "anyone who needs more than two pairs of shoes doesn't know how to use them.". C'mon, 2 time major champion, you're better than that. Don't be a clubmunist.
Click to expand...

I believe he is referring to shots around and just off the green
 
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matt kluck

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Ian Poulter

Lindsey Newman said:
I believe he is referring to shots around and just off the green
Click to expand...
Lindsey is correct.

When Ian Poulter hit his shot from behind the green on 17 yesterday th eannouncing crew was a bit surprised by the club selection, a wedge. I was surprised that they were surprised by the quality shot he made.

Less bounce allows the player more versatility and shot making skills can be acquired sooner.

I totally agree with Arnold Palmer and putting from off of the green when the situation calls for it but I recall the greatest player in the world missing the green twice with his putter in a US Open at Pinehurst.

I am glad this thread sparked some good debate and I am off to teach people how to use the bounce of their club a little better for the next several hours.

Have a great day!
MK
 
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softconsult

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Sitting here with the winter weather outside and the following thought occurs to me.

I've said before that the vast majority of my golf is in our Seniors Golf league. I think I can say with some certainty that of 213 members, maybe 25 (that might be stretching it) know how to use bounce, or maybe even know what it is. Not just sand shots, but around the green shots. Pathetic that they never made the effort to learn this fundamental.
 
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birly-shirly

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I'd find it hard to state what the fundamentals are for using bounce, at least on grass.

Utley says that bounce adds forgiveness, even from tight lies and that 12* is no issue even off hardpan (or asphalt for that matter) - and that's him advocating a pitching technique that brings the sole into play.

Other guys, Pelz, Mickelson, Pavin, seem to want a wedge with minimal bounce for fairway and tight lies - and a technique that to some extent takes whatever bounce they have out of play.

It seems to me that control over low point is probably more important.
 
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softconsult

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Birly, here's one example. I have a Scratch wedge 60 degree that has their Digger grind (a lot of bounce).
I also have a couple of Titleist Vokey 60's with 4 degrees of bounce. I have played with the Scratch 60
for about year. Utley can hit his 58 degree 12 degree bounce wedge off a parking lot, i. e. tight lie. I can hit
the Scratch 60 of tight lies too, but the key is to not use the bounce. Basically just an attack angle that is
leading edge first. If I fail to do that, it's thin city, and over the green. More of a problem on short pitches,
never think about it on longer shots from the fairway or rough. So I was trying to say that a fundamental is to
know how to not use the bounce.
 
golfbulldog

golfbulldog

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SoftConsult and Mgranato, we just think differently I guess - no hard feelings.

Anyone used these:-

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg2nN1Sqn8E[/media]
???
 
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