Brian Manzella at The Ryder Cup....

[FanofHogan]

quote:Originally posted by 300Drive

I was talking to a member of Oakland Hills today and he said the Europeans all ate at a collection of tables pulled next to each other while the Americans eat at seperate tables with there spouses...its a team thing (mentally)...we still have the best individual golfers.

And that usually shows up on the Sunday singles. I have not seen where each of 24 participants ranked in the world ranking but I think outside of maybe the captain's picks it's safe to say they were in the top 50. Guys, from number one to number fifty, the talent drop off is not that much. These guys are damn good players one and all. It just gets to the intangible things that makes and breaks these matches. For one thing, there is no real team mentality that I can see to the US squad. Maybe Brian or Brady can give an answer if that is correct or not since they have an 'in' of sorts to the players. Plus, the American squad has everything to lose and nothing to win. If they win, well, they're supposed to win. If they lose, man they stunk it up. There was an article about the "Calcevechia factor" in one of the golf rags. It discussed the Kiawah Island matches. It talked about Langer missing the put, but that he recovered from that to win again that year and really hasnt suffered from it that much because "Hey, they werent supposed to win anyway." But Calc lost his match over the last 4 holes to Monty and basically went into a deep funk even though his team still one because "Hey, they're supposed to win." If you go to some of the other golf forums Sutton is getting roasted. I realy hate to see that. If the captain is too hands off, he is labled a wuss who wont challenge the players. If he takes the heavy handed approach, he gets labled a Napoleon who wouldnt just let the players play. What does everyone think about Riley begging off the afternoon matches on Friday and Saturday?

 

[Redgoat]

Fan,

Great post. The one thing I would like to add is that we are missing the leadership of the players that was so palpable a two decades ago.

This defeat would have never happened if Payne were alive today, I sincerely believe that. He loved the Ryder Cup, embraced the competiton, the ultimate team guy.

Others that the US haven't been able to replace:

Ray Floyd- the Euro's hated his gamesmanship at the Belfry for good reason, he was their to win. A serious competitor.

Fred Couples- His pairing with Davis in foursomes and fourball as a formidable duo.

Lanny Wadkins- Not well liked in many circles due to his attitude, had an edge because of it.

Corey Pavin- The bulldog. Downright intimidating.

Paul Azinger- Not afraid to get nasty if necessary. Also great in match play.

Tom Lehman- Took it to Ballesteros at Oak Hill. Loved to be in the middle of the battle.

On the US Horizon:

Jerry Kelly- perfect for this format.

Jonathan Kaye- attitude personified.

Hank Khuene- ultimate fourball partner.

John Daly- tied for ultimate fourball partner.

One thing you can count on is that the pendulum will swing back towards the Americans. Montgomerie, Clark, etc will not be there forever.

Brady

 

[300Drive]

One last thing....we simply got our _ss handed to us. We got outplayed again.

 

[FanofHogan]

Brady

Couldnt agree more about Payne, Zinger and Wadkins. I've always heard the one player the Euros feared the most was Wadkins. I was surprised when he didnt win as a captain. How do you think Daly would have done at Oakland Hills? He doesnt have a stellar US Open record and that course while not having the rough of a US Open still had that feel to it from what I saw. I can take losing. But i cant take the non-chalant attitude it seemed a lot of the players had when doing it. What about Mickelson? I am not going to do the typical player bashing that most arm chair quaterbacks so easily do, but he didnt give the public warm fuzzies with the no practice and the equipment change in the weeks leading up to the RC. Maybe it would be almost worth it to have a satellite hook up so that guys like Pavin, Wadkins and Lehman could adress the team during meetings before the matches to pump 'em a bit. I know if I were the captain, I'd have to give some serious thought to a nice video montoge of Payne Stewarts greatest Ryder Cup highlights. I know that might be cheesy to play that card. But I dont think he would mind it being done.

 

[njmp2]

Unlike a whole generation of Leadbetter Academy "Golf only" athletes. Most Europeans, and Canadians, played some sort of team sport like soccer or ice hockey. Not golf 24/7/12.

I loved that the euros strolled around town and drank coffee and beer in public.

nice stuff Red.

 

[silvercreek]

let me preface this-i love david toms, but when he says if this thing played out according to whats on paper, it isn't even close?! that is one BIG if. he's been watching too much olympic basketball.

 

[mb6606]

I believe the best 4 ball strategy would be to pair a guy that makes lots of birdies and eagles (long hitter) with a steady player (short hitter). You need the birdies to win holes the pars to keep pace.

 

[bantamben1]

its just realy sad that once again these got outplayed. the realy sad part is they lost bad in foursomes, fourball and even singles where america has always had the edge but its getting slimmer. all i know is the rookies you cant blame them dimarco did great riley did his part the guns though the flat out sucked even tiger big deal if he won his singles match hes the 2nd best player in the world playing a rookie those guys have to have winning records in ryder cups or the americans will never win ps phils a choker. i dont blame sutton one bit these guys are pros a captain can help but the players gotta sack up and play.

 

[swingeasttowest]

Mickelson is not made of champion material. Switching to diffent equipment gives him the excuse if he doesn't perform well.Probably a nice guy, but does not have killer instincts.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Brady...HooRAY!!

I couldn't agree more.

 

[southpaw]

Mickelson= It's all about me. And B's right- we have too many "nice guys". Match play is a whole different animal where personalities and attitude are two "intangibles" that really come into play. We want to be liked too much.

 

[FanofHogan]

quote:Originally posted by southpaw

Mickelson= It's all about me. And B's right- we have too many "nice guys". Match play is a whole different animal where personalities and attitude are two "intangibles" that really come into play. We want to be liked too much.

I dont know that you can say any of those guys arent "All about me."

 

[revert]

Golf in the USA and golf in Britain or Europe are too different animals and i know from playing golf in both countries. Even in a club where i am a member in Texas, the camararderie doesn't even come close to my old club in England. This seems to be reflected in both tours.

At my old club in England, as well as having the regular annual matchplay event we hosted our own form of the Ryder Cup, was England v the Rest of the british Isles, made up of Scots, the Welsh and Irish. We also played in Leagues, there were ten clubs in our league and we'd play all clubs home and away, singles matchplay of course. This is something i'd love to see at my own club, playing in a league is a lot of fun.

So anyway, we do seem to play a lot more matchplay in Europe than the US guys and as a club all the members were closer.

 

[dclaryjr]

quote:Originally posted by revert
So anyway, we do seem to play a lot more matchplay in Europe than the US guys and as a club all the members were closer.

My only response to that is given the size of the U.S. and the nubmer of clubs out there, that your conclusions are drawn from an infitesimally small sample. It may, in fact, be true but you can't know for sure based on your experience alone. I know lot's of people who play in leagues and interclub competitions.

 

[BigBadDonkey]

How can one determine who is better on paper.. e.g. I guess we are talking about World Ranking, Major wins, tournament wins?
In which case it's impossible.. If three of the four majors were played in Europe the figures would be reversed. As with the World rankings.. they are biased to those who play tournaments on the US tour.
This 'we are better individually\on paper' is not as clear cut as it seems. I just don't think the US are as good as they think they are. And the Ryder Cup, although flawed, shows this.