tallathlete
New
On a level 15 foot putt with a reasonable path....and I know "reasonable" is purely subjective...what % of the initial starting line of the putt is putter face angle?
Brian...Putting D Plane...........
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
That's pretty close...
So, remember, you HAVE TO make sure your RESULTANT PATH is where you want it to be....
An ON PLANE Stroke with a slight uphit will require an open face (to the path) or a rightward path to make a straight putt!
Does the SAM Putt lab measure club path, face angle and attack angle on putts? If not, what machine best measure the club path, face ange and attack angle for putts?
Maybe I have Trackman/D-plane on the brain, but this information sure could be helpful in better understanding my putting.
Maybe I have Trackman/D-plane on the brain, but this information sure could be helpful in better understanding my putting.
The SAM measures all of those and quite a few more. Other than the SAM, I've only seen the TOMI. IMO the SAM is better in that it measures many more parameters. However, the SAM is considerably more expensive.
I've been on the TOMI and wasn't impressed. I'm going to try the SAM this winter and see what happens. It now makes sense to me that the club path, face angle and attack angle play a large role in putting given the small tolerances in these factors to make a putt (assuming a decent green).
Sometimes I'm amazed the ball even goes forward given all of the physics in golf and how easy it is to screw up a shot.
Sometimes I'm amazed the ball even goes forward given all of the physics in golf and how easy it is to screw up a shot.
willgolfer
New
How much of that spin is negated by friction and the ball rolling on the putting surface.
S
SteveT
Guest
D-plane for putting stroke??? Isn't this overkill?????
At 5 feet, the angular tolerance into a 4.25" cup is +/- 2º ....!!!!!!!!!
And the tolerance gets smaller farther out you go.
Now if you are consistently missing the putt by say 6 inches to the left, you have an optical problem, plus perhaps a putter problem.
Also, putting is done on such a large swing radius, most everything is on a horizontal plane. Sure you can hit slightly up, down or level ... but that doesn't have much influence on ball roll or path for shorter putts ... maybe on longer putts, but then you are applying a mini-chip to the ball.
At 5 feet, the angular tolerance into a 4.25" cup is +/- 2º ....!!!!!!!!!
And the tolerance gets smaller farther out you go.
Now if you are consistently missing the putt by say 6 inches to the left, you have an optical problem, plus perhaps a putter problem.
Also, putting is done on such a large swing radius, most everything is on a horizontal plane. Sure you can hit slightly up, down or level ... but that doesn't have much influence on ball roll or path for shorter putts ... maybe on longer putts, but then you are applying a mini-chip to the ball.
When you get on the SAM, don't get too wrapped up in your technique scores. If there are obvious deficiencies then work on them. However, what's much more important is your consistency scores, dynamics, and timing. I've seen lots of SAM puttlab reports for people who have great technique scores but they can't putt worth a lick when you get them outside. Conversely, there are plenty of people who putt great outside, but don't have good technique scores on the SAM.
That's what the TOMI operator said. Maybe I'm thinking about this subject too much. I love the way I putt and was very consistent on the TOMI. I'll probably break down anyway and check it out when there's a bunch of snow on the ground this winter and I'm starting to go nuts because I can't play golf.
natep
New
It may be overkill, but I'm still going to blame my poor putting on a lack of putting d-plane awareness!
Sure, but if the ball is spinning as it's being popped up for that tenth of a second, when it lands the spin is going to make it want to start in the direction of the spin. Momentum might allow it to overtake most of the friction, but not totally. Otherwise we'd never see a chip turn sideways upon landing.
Todd Dugan
New
I don't buy the idea that a put rolls better with a slightly ascending Angle of Attack. In terms of ideal roll, you've got to be looking at two initial launch conditions: Launch Angle and Spin Rate. All else the same, the Launch Angle will be determined by Dynamic Loft. So with a 0* Attack Angle, you just need the correct Spinloft to produce the ideal Launch Angle. The Spin Rate should be 0*. A TINY bit of overspin or backspin isn't going to make any difference. More than a little overspin will make the ball accelerate after initial launch. Why the heck would you want that?
My research has shown, to me anyway, that you can put a nice roll on the ball with good launch and spin characteristics with a 0* Attack Angle and 3-3.5* of Spinloft. Even if conceding that some advantage is gained by a slight up-hit, you don't want either a Clubface open to Path OR a Plane Line that is not 0*. No, instead, strive for "Quadruple Zeros"...Path, Clubface, Attack Angle, and Horizontal Swing Plane.
The introduction of higher friction-generating Clubfaces will pull the ball more towards the path direction when Clubface is not square to Path. Another good reason for "Quadruple Zeros".
My research has shown, to me anyway, that you can put a nice roll on the ball with good launch and spin characteristics with a 0* Attack Angle and 3-3.5* of Spinloft. Even if conceding that some advantage is gained by a slight up-hit, you don't want either a Clubface open to Path OR a Plane Line that is not 0*. No, instead, strive for "Quadruple Zeros"...Path, Clubface, Attack Angle, and Horizontal Swing Plane.
The introduction of higher friction-generating Clubfaces will pull the ball more towards the path direction when Clubface is not square to Path. Another good reason for "Quadruple Zeros".
S
SteveT
Guest
It may be overkill, but I'm still going to blame my poor putting on a lack of putting d-plane awareness!
Ain't that something like paralysis of scientalysis ...
S
SteveT
Guest
Hey, people .... hitting the ball in the air and then rolling it on grass somewhat akin to archery plus shuffleboard ..!!!
The problem with putting is that the first few inches of any putt is just skidding and roll will only begin when friction takes hold .. and who knows how the chaotic grass surface will react with the dimpled ball ... it's just a crapshoot ... best guess ... a lottery ... an enigma wrapped in a mystery ...
Geoff Mangum says it's all contained in your brain cortex gray matter plus a little help from gravity.
The problem with putting is that the first few inches of any putt is just skidding and roll will only begin when friction takes hold .. and who knows how the chaotic grass surface will react with the dimpled ball ... it's just a crapshoot ... best guess ... a lottery ... an enigma wrapped in a mystery ...
Geoff Mangum says it's all contained in your brain cortex gray matter plus a little help from gravity.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
You guys are too much!
THIS IS WHAT ALL THE BEST PUTTING TEACHERS ARE WORKING AROUND!!
If you make an ON PLANE STROKE, and hit the ball on the way up, you HAVE TO HAVE THE FACE OPEN.
Geez....
Or you can HOOK 'EM IN like Eldrick.
THIS IS WHAT ALL THE BEST PUTTING TEACHERS ARE WORKING AROUND!!
If you make an ON PLANE STROKE, and hit the ball on the way up, you HAVE TO HAVE THE FACE OPEN.
Geez....
Or you can HOOK 'EM IN like Eldrick.
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