mjstrong
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Does he hook em in, or pull them in?
Brian...Putting D Plane...........
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Does he hook em in, or pull them in?
Todd Dugan
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Right. And when you consider that the ball does not start 100% in the direction of the face when the face and path are not square, but more like 80% or less, then why would you want that type of imprecision in your putting stroke?
The SAM report I've seen for him indicates a path slightly to the right with a bit more face closure through impact. Seems consistent with him wanting to "release the toe". His consistency scores and dynamics were VERY good. From what I've heard, he owns a SAM so it's quite possible/likely he has made some adjustments since that initial report.
i don't know enough to agree or diagree with steve here, but my hunch is that he has a point. there is a line between so called science and practicality. and on the topic of science, there needs to be a reliable model to assess the roles played by face, path and now the d-plane, RALATIVELY.
here is one for thoughts: a par 3, 160 yards, do you align the ball differently if the wind is zero mph vs 1 mph?
well, if you want to stick to science, some would say, yes, because zero and 1 are different.
but in reality, while standing on the tee box, how can one (the average joe) possibly accurately adjust?
you tell me. i think the attempt to adjust may cause more error than the error of leaving it alone.
another point:
how can the SAM machine tell a tiny path problem by the golfer vs the intrinsic D plane (IF BY CHANCE THE GOLFER INDEED HAS ONE BECAUSE OF HIS SETUP)?
here is one for thoughts: a par 3, 160 yards, do you align the ball differently if the wind is zero mph vs 1 mph?
well, if you want to stick to science, some would say, yes, because zero and 1 are different.
but in reality, while standing on the tee box, how can one (the average joe) possibly accurately adjust?
you tell me. i think the attempt to adjust may cause more error than the error of leaving it alone.
another point:
how can the SAM machine tell a tiny path problem by the golfer vs the intrinsic D plane (IF BY CHANCE THE GOLFER INDEED HAS ONE BECAUSE OF HIS SETUP)?
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mjstrong
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"face closure through impact" - not by more than, what is it, .2 degrees? He wants to "release the toe" because he initially aims his face a little to the right, if I remember correctly. You're right though, the consistency scores of all the best putters are remarkable, even if they don't have textbook SAM numbers.
Since Tiger aims his face to the right, does he make up for this by hitting up and in a little? If you watch the worm cam views, it seems like a lot of pros actually pull their putts a little bit. Almost makes me feel better about pulling mine all the time...
willgolfer
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"The relative importance of the three parameters regarding stroke direction consistency was 80% for face angle, 17% for putter path, and 3% for horizontal impact point."
Took this from page 26 (of the document linked below):
http://brage.bibsys.no/nih/bitstream/URN:NBN:no-bibsys_brage_14268/1/Karlsen%202010.pdf
Took this from page 26 (of the document linked below):
http://brage.bibsys.no/nih/bitstream/URN:NBN:no-bibsys_brage_14268/1/Karlsen%202010.pdf
good info to know, as a start.
has anyone in his life putted a putt that is exactly like one he has putted before?
the answer is no. therefore, if there are one zillion different putts, there needs to be one zillion different models.
out on the course, this 3% is extremely difficult to apply in each putt clinically. i believe this is a case where the fine scale of science has gone way beyond what an average human can make use of. imo.
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SteveT
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Can't seem to load the full study, and only 3 pages show up in my .pdf doc .. 1, 34 and 35. Is it being blocked or something?
mjstrong
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Also interesting that they deem the "optimum" stroke to have 1.6 degrees of open/close on the backswing/downswing.
willgolfer
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Can't seem to load the full study, and only 3 pages show up in my .pdf doc .. 1, 34 and 35. Is it being blocked or something?
That's odd. Could it be your browser? Works fine here in the US...not sure where you're logging in from. I was also able to access through my iPhone browser and load it into iBooks.
Todd Dugan
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Here's a interesting video....
Video: Inside Kevin Weeks' Putting Lab at Cog Hill (Featuring Brad Faxon)
The pro identifies that Faxon's putter is "too low to the ground" through impact....basically, he's hitting at Low Point.
So the pro recommends that Fax gets a little more "rise angle" through impact....which means impact AFTER Low Point.
First thing to note is that one of the greatest putters that the game has ever seen was found to be impacting at Low Point. That says something right there.
Secondly, Do you think it was explained to Fax that if he hits more "up" on the ball then he will either have to 1. come off the plane just prior to impact to keep the Clubhead Path directly at the Target Line....or 2. stay on the plane, in which case the clubhead will be moving left of the Target Line, and with the clubface square to Target Line at impact means a "mini" slice....NOT a square impact....and the ball will be pulled a few tenths of a degree left of the clubface alignment at impact...
I don't think so. Hope it didn't screw him up too bad.
Video: Inside Kevin Weeks' Putting Lab at Cog Hill (Featuring Brad Faxon)
The pro identifies that Faxon's putter is "too low to the ground" through impact....basically, he's hitting at Low Point.
So the pro recommends that Fax gets a little more "rise angle" through impact....which means impact AFTER Low Point.
First thing to note is that one of the greatest putters that the game has ever seen was found to be impacting at Low Point. That says something right there.
Secondly, Do you think it was explained to Fax that if he hits more "up" on the ball then he will either have to 1. come off the plane just prior to impact to keep the Clubhead Path directly at the Target Line....or 2. stay on the plane, in which case the clubhead will be moving left of the Target Line, and with the clubface square to Target Line at impact means a "mini" slice....NOT a square impact....and the ball will be pulled a few tenths of a degree left of the clubface alignment at impact...
I don't think so. Hope it didn't screw him up too bad.
How much is great putting attributable to the stroke itself or great greens and hitting a shot on the green within 8 feet and having a chance at making the putt? I don't see a huge variance in the putting stroke of pros and/or good amateurs. (There's a huge difference in golf swings).
I understand the pros putt on great greens, however, I suspect they put the ball into a makeable position (ex. 12:00 or 6:00 position - within 10 feet) a lot more than amateurs. The putting stroke isn't that much different between a pro or good amateur (IMO). What's really different is the putting surface, green mapping provided to tour players and putting the ball in a place where one has a decent chance at making the putt. Pros don't make 10 foot curlers all day long or else they'll starve.
I understand the pros putt on great greens, however, I suspect they put the ball into a makeable position (ex. 12:00 or 6:00 position - within 10 feet) a lot more than amateurs. The putting stroke isn't that much different between a pro or good amateur (IMO). What's really different is the putting surface, green mapping provided to tour players and putting the ball in a place where one has a decent chance at making the putt. Pros don't make 10 foot curlers all day long or else they'll starve.
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SteveT
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Geoff Mangum, I believe, says that there is no effective way to apply sidespin to a ball rolling on the green .. only face angle and path affects ball roll and direction. He knows.
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