Brian......the "Tour Pitch"

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Jim Kobylinski

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You've talked about this a few times on the web and you've discussed it with me in person. Lately since i've really been hitting the ball well and scoring well too (thanks Big B!) i have been trying to learn the "tour pitch."

I'm not 100% sure i'm doing it the way you said (it was a while ago you told me) but basically what i'm trying to do is time an "impact flip." Basically i use a pitch backswing, get my aiming point right, get my impact hands (flat left/bent right), hit the ball that way BUT instead of swiveling i'm simply "flipping."

If i time it right, i get a nice high floater with a lot more spin. It's a little scary at first, but within 10 balls or so i had it and was really getting some nice spin off the range rocks and our "astro turf" material that the range has.

Is this the "tour pitch?" I know you said DT does this and i'm trying to learn it too.

Thanks Brian
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
birdie_man:

- Take impact fix
- Now go to follow through
- now bend your left wrist (by flipping straight up / vertical hinge)
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
yup...its a very scary shot because if you lose the "down" and "flip" too early you'll blade it.

but after practicing it for a while on the range, i only bladed one once.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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I guess another option would be to open the face a bit and use Brian's/Ben's "mash it" method for those higher shots.

This is how I've been doing it lately. I don't mind opening the face a bit...I'm thinking that I'd be more comfortable w/o the flip in there...if I open the clubface and still hit down, holding that flat left/bent right, the open clubface adds the extra loft so I don't have to (and compromise my impact alignments).

That's what I'm thinking right now anyway.

Who knows though...I'm gonna go test these two styles out and see what works best for me.
 
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matt

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Open the face.

Ball in middle of stance.

Punch right elbow position.

Pick it up and smash down with an active right elbow.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
matt...that works, but it wouldn't on the tour. Greens are too fast and hard. Thats why they all do the "tour pitch."

I'm trying to see exactly how to do it thats why i'm waiting for brian to respond.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Why wouldn't it work on tour now? You can get some pretty good height on your shots this way too.

It's nice to hit down if you have a tight lie too.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
quote:Originally posted by birdie_man

Why wouldn't it work on tour now? You can get some pretty good height on your shots this way too.

It's nice to hit down if you have a tight lie too.
Click to expand...

yup...you should hit down. Not saying you shouldn't. It wouldn't work because you wouldn't get enough zip on the ball. What brian has said to me and i'm saying to you is they use the "tour pitch" which is a descending blow going straight to what seems like a vertical hinge via a flip.
 
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matt

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Instead of playing around with bending your left wrist (which is rather dangerous and I wouldn't trust it under the gun), I just do what I checklisted above. When the shot is that short and you're standing close to the ball, your "no roll" feel of angled hinging is making the clubface "lay back" more than it's closing.

There's only one horizontal hinge and only one vertical hinge, but there are infinite degrees of angled hinge - i.e. everything in between a horizontal and vertical plane. An angled hinge with a driver is more towards a horizontal hinge because of the flatter plane angle (relative to the ground), and therefore an angled hinge with a lob wedge where you're standing close to the ball is approaching a vertical hinge.

So instead of either bending your left wrist or trying to employ vertical hinging (which is always a deliberate muscular manipulation that can go wrong) you should just hit the shot with an angled hinge "no roll" feel - you'll be pretty close to "layback only" and that will generate the extra height you need for the shot.
 
N

nevermind

New
It sounds like your saying the flipping of your wrist after both arms straight is somehow having an effect on the ball during impact... HUH? What changes earlier in your swing due to your intention to flip?

matt are you saying you will avoid vertical hinging wherever possible? Ive been using the Push basic stroke from 50yrds in, it seems to go very well with vertical hinging.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
quote:Originally posted by DDL

Brian teaches throwaway?
Click to expand...

No...this is simply something he calls the "Tour pitch" because the normal "mash it" down into the ground pitch won't work on tour. It doesn't get enough spin/height/whatever.

He told me that to get the extra spin, the guys on tour are hitting it with impact alignments but then flip through it.

Nevermind...i know what you mean. I don't know how it works either. Maybe it has to do something with the whole "line of compression" meaning what you program in your computer will move the hands for you to produce the results. All i know is that when i did the pitch the way brian described to me, i'd still take a small/tiny divot but it would pop up in the air faster with more spin.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Remember in that Snead/Toski video on Yoda's site where Snead says "You swing down and up at the same time."

Is that what we're talking about here?...to one degree of it or another.

I'm pretty sure I know what this pitch is but that just came to my mind.

I think Brian said something before about hitting pitches where if you want to get a ball to check up fast on those short ones you have to take some compression outta there (hence the flip- where the right wrist unbends through the ball and the clubhead passes the hands prematurely- think backward leaning shaft pretty much). I guess if you get a real solid impact the ball gets too much forward momentum and doesn't land as softly.

The thread is here: http://www.manzellagolfforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2171&SearchTerms=pitch

It makes sense though...I always thought to really spin one you had to really chop down on it and pinch it. "Mash it." Maybe for longer pitches.

I guess this tour pitch would be kinda like fluffing it up into the air and almost like "taking a shaving off the ball." If you know what I mean.
 
N

nevermind

New
thanks jim. I'd really like to learn this shot. played a track with very hard and fast greens the other day and 'mashing it' just gave my pitches and chips too much forward momentum without enough spin. I had sort of the same thought as Birdie man, Up and Down. Instead of driving down to both arms straight, exagerate the fell of the left shoulder moving up right after impact?
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
My "feel" is that when i immediately contact the ball with impact hands, instead of going to follow through i just throw it away and completely bend my left wrist vertically. This lowers the compression and allows the ball to ride up the face.

Now what is ACTUALLY happening? I don't know, lol. We'd need a high speed video. All i know is when i do it right, it get a very small shallow "browning grass" divot as i call them and the ball jumps up high fast and lands with more spin.
 
N

nevermind

New
hmmm. In another topic Brian sad that the "tour pitch" goes lower. Intuitively, what you've descibed and higher launch make perfect sense... BRIAN!?!
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Well maybe i'm confusing what he called the tour pitch and what he told me David Toms does.

In the lower/skipping pitch that spins, you need:

- back ball position
- square face
- a "mini-pull" swing contacting the BACK of the ball
- angle or vertical hinge
- i use a RFP and a hitting stroke
- try to take a shallow divot

-----------

Ball flies low and left to right
 
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