Brian. You might want to re-think something you said recently...

[jaridyard]

Brian,

There was a short lived topic recently that disappeared very quickly but not before you had shot down the content.

Remember this picture?

Remember how you said, "the ball would miss the water left with those numbers"?

Well here are some Trackman numbers for you to remember. Only 1º out on face and the ball doesn't come close to crossing the line.

Is that why the topic disappeared so quickly?

p.s - it was a 6 iron not 9.

 

[ggsjpc]

Guess, I was wrong too. Thanks for correcting me.

 

[mgranato]

Am I reading this right? A 90mph 9i that carries 171 and rolls 30 more yards? Playstation? Links course?

 

[jaridyard]

Please see edit.

 

[mgranato]

Ah, I was beginning to think a drug test was in order

 

[jaridyard]

Ha, it was my mistake not changing club.

 

[mgranato]

I'm guessing Garcia was hitting something like a 9. Would'nt that change the path, face angle, and AoA numbers?

 

[jaridyard]

If we could keep the face (relative to ground) and path the same the D-Plane would have a less severe tilt but more spin due to dynamic loft. The result if anything would be less severe.

 

[dsmith2296]

Guys, I had some off the wall readings on Trackman once while testing Cleveland clubs. The problem is that TM was set up on a yellow flag in the distance and I mistakenly was hitting toward a red flag 40 yards left.

When they read back my readings I was over the top like 18 degrees with a 9 degree closed clubface (or something drastic like that). As for TM, the ball does what it does and you can't argue with that-- but the numbers depend on the target line at initial setup.

 

[jaridyard]

Believe me when I say it was set up correctly, I should know. More to the point the path and face relate to the specified target line and the ball does not cross it, whether I was set up there is irrelevant.

 

[dsmith2296]

Believe me when I say it was set up correctly, I should know. More to the point the path and face relate to the specified target line and the ball does not cross it, whether I was set up there is irrelevant.

Fair enough. Also, my scewed numbers showed me 40 yards left (side) of target..So that supports your position that you were set up correctly.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Answer for now

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B7VAH58YM0&feature=youtube_gdata[/media]

 

[jaridyard]

Good of you to do that Brian, the reason the shot is unusable is not so much down to low launch as it falls pretty close to tour average for a 6 iron (14.1º - PGA Tour 6 iron) but the lack of spin. I don't think it was ever meant to be a scale picture of any kind, just a basic representation.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Get it right!!!

Brian,

There was a short lived topic recently that disappeared very quickly but not before you had shot down the content.

Yes, I remember.

I took the thread down becuase this picture below was very incorrectly diagramed, and I didn't want it to confuse my forum memebers with bad information.

You said, "the ball would miss the water left with those numbers"?

Anytime the face is "half of the path" the ball goes toward the target.

I have posted that on this forum for 6 straight years.

In the incorrectly diagrammed pic, I quickly glanced at how far off the path line was, and saw something about "10 left." I thought that was the face.

My pic below shows what really would happen and where the D-Plane actually is.

Well here are some Trackman numbers for you to remember. Only 1º out on face and the ball doesn't come close to crossing the line.

See above.

Is that why the topic disappeared so quickly?

No.

I took it down becuase until my GTE Seminar is over next week, I don't have the time to deal with other methodolgy followers.

But today, I am making the time.

<HR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #abbecf; COLOR: #abbecf" SIZE=1>

Good of you to do that Brian, the reason the shot is unusable is not so much down to low launch as it falls pretty close to tour average for a 6 iron (14.1º - PGA Tour 6 iron) but the lack of spin. I don't think it was ever meant to be a scale picture of any kind, just a basic representation.

When we do stuff like my graphic below, we try to get it right.

Try to understand where I am coming from.

There is a group of folks who GOT BLOWN UP FOREVER by the D-Plane.

(Not the S&Ters, they use it)

This group tries to convice folks they can swing 11 degree to the right and hit straight balls.

You can't.

They are now swimming and name-calling.

Here is a really good graphic.

If anyone out there wants to steal it, give me some credit this time.

 

[jaridyard]

Here's the flight(s) for the Trackman numbers posted above.

 

[GPM1985]

I didn't think it was physically possible to swing 20* right, but I guess it is. What I'm taking from all of this is that it's impractical to tilt the plane as much as is depicted in the graphic. The ball flight in the graphic seems more appropriate for a specialty shot. Like, around a 200 year-old banyan tree with a 40 mph left-to-right wind, to a back left pin on a green coated in peanut butter.

I'd be uncomfortable with a 135-yard approach shot that moved that much, and flew that low. I also wouldn't be crazy about aiming 47 yards left. That seems excessive.

The Trackman data on the first page says that the 20/10 is doable, but at what cost? Less than 3000 RPMs on a six iron seems awfully low, and I don't see too many greens that will accomodate 30 yards of roll. I'm not arguing against the type of shot described by the data, because I don't think there's much of an argument for it. I'm mostly just struck by the nature of what I'd consider to be an unnecessary, potentially catastrophic method of hitting the ball. It seems like face control becomes increasingly precious as the path gets more extreme.

 

[jaridyard]

The intent was never to suggest this was a good way to hit a golf shot, just that it was a) possible and b) wouldn't hook left of target. Believe me it was hard work to get the numbers.

 

[jaridyard]

If anyone out there wants to steal it, give me some credit this time.

It's ok... we have video now

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[dsmith2296]

Shouldn't this be a MEGA PUSH DRAW-- I don't understand how the path can be 20* and and not swing WAYYY out to the right.

 

[jaridyard]

Yes, maybe it should and yes you would need to swing way right.